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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Is it possible to purchase the Celica GT-S Greddy Supercharger kit (<$2900) and just get the tune from CharlieX ($600)?

With the $2000 saved, I'm sure I could fab a charcoal canister bracket :shrug:

The Greddy Celica kit even includes software (which I guess could be sold......)
 

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Sure it's possible... I guess about anything is:D

I would suggest two things, 1) searching newcelica.org for all the bracket failures of the Greddy kit and see if you still like your idea and 2) if you try this, develop a relationship with a good fabrication and machine shop to have several of the Greddy brackets remanufactured and reconfigured to fit the much smaller Lotus engine bay and differently positioned A/C lines of the Lotus. The sector kits share exactly zero of the Greddy brackets. Only common greddy parts are the dipstick tube, intake manifold, and blower of course... After it's all said and done you *may* spend a few less dollars, but you'll spend a ton of time designing and engineering the brackets, quite a bit of money in machining and CAD drawings, and lose any vendor support in the event that something goes wrong. Not worth it, IMO...

Best,

Phil
 

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Phil get yer ass back to work on that tilting clam. No internet breaks for you!

xtn
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sure it's possible... I guess about anything is:D

I would suggest two things, 1) searching newcelica.org for all the bracket failures of the Greddy kit and see if you still like your idea and 2) if you try this, develop a relationship with a good fabrication and machine shop to have several of the Greddy brackets remanufactured and reconfigured to fit the much smaller Lotus engine bay and differently positioned A/C lines of the Lotus. The sector kits share exactly zero of the Greddy brackets. Only common greddy parts are the dipstick tube, intake manifold, and blower of course... After it's all said and done you *may* spend a few less dollars, but you'll spend a ton of time designing and engineering the brackets, quite a bit of money in machining and CAD drawings, and lose any vendor support in the event that something goes wrong. Not worth it, IMO...

Best,

Phil
So this is the $2000 difference? I could almost order another complete Greddy supercharger kit (inc. software) for the cost of those brackets. Holy Lotus Tax! :crazyeyes
 

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Plug Whisperer
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Phil get yer ass back to work on that tilting clam. No internet breaks for you!

xtn
doh, my bad:(:D

We're sooooo close. We had a couple machining and p-coat delays:rolleyes: But things are still moving along:D :up:

Best,

Phil
 

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I think that Phil and the original post are right, just combined together. Buy the Greddy kit, buy Charlie's computer, make the necessary relocation brackets yourself. If you have to pay somebody else to make them, I would follow Phil's advice and just buy from Sector or Blackwatch.

Assuming this idea actually works, I will probably be doing what you have proposed. However, I have the capacities to make my own brackets.....and I have more time than I have $2000.:)
 

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So this is the $2000 difference? I could almost order another complete Greddy supercharger kit (inc. software) for the cost of those brackets. Holy Lotus Tax! :crazyeyes
You don't have to take my word for it... Give it a try and find out for yourself. It's doable, just be prepared to do some serious fab work. I speak from experience here (lots of it regarding these kits)...

FWIW, If you're trying to justify dollars spent per part in the kit, you get even fewer additional parts for the dollars with the BWR kit if that makes you feel any better:D

Perhaps you could call magnusen and buy the blower and intake straight from them and cut Greddy out of the equation too-poke-:D...

Seriously though, if you don't perceive the *value* that either company (S111 or BWR) provide in their R&D to develop the kit so that it bolts right on, warranty, instructions, and service, then any *price* will be too much for ya. If you have the ability, knowledge, and tools to fab and like to do it, then go for it...

Best,

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
You don't have to take my word for it... Give it a try and find out for yourself. It's doable, just be prepared to do some serious fab work. I speak from experience here (lots of it regarding these kits)...

FWIW, If you're trying to justify dollars spent per part in the kit, you get even fewer additional parts for the dollars with the BWR kit if that makes you feel any better:D

Perhaps you could call magnusen and buy the blower and intake straight from them and cut Greddy out of the equation too-poke-:D...

Seriously though, if you don't perceive the *value* that either company (S111 or BWR) provide in their R&D to develop the kit so that it bolts right on, warranty, instructions, and service, then any *price* will be too much for ya. If you have the ability, knowledge, and tools to fab and like to do it, then go for it...

Best,

Phil
I'm just saying......

I'm sure A LOT more R&D went into building the $2900 supercharger kit than into cutting some brackets. Sure....you could argue that the market is larger, but thats not the point.

To me, it seems like a "conversion kit" is all that was required; not a repackaged SC kit. But wait....the vendor would never be able to justify $2000 for some brackets alone.

I'm sure the brackets cost no more than $50 to manufacture per kit. I could MAYBE understand a 500% markup ($250), but never a 4000% markup ($2000)!!! Yes, 4000% markup!! -eek-

Also, why would I want to cut Greddy out? I need the whole Greddy kit, not just the blower....

BTW, cost is not an issue to me. Perceived value is the issue.
 

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I'm just saying......

I'm sure A LOT more R&D went into building the $2900 supercharger kit than into cutting some brackets. Sure....you could argue that the market is larger, but thats not the point.

To me, it seems like a "conversion kit" is all that was required; not a repackaged SC kit. But wait....the vendor would never be able to justify $2000 for some brackets alone.

I'm sure the brackets cost no more than $50 to manufacture per kit. I could MAYBE understand a 500% markup ($250), but never a 4000% markup ($2000)!!!

Yes, 4000% markup!! -eek-
"... and that, young Gedi, is the reason you fail..."
"... a slippery slope, the Dark Side is..."
 

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In business there is no such thing as an unfair markup. You charge what the market will bear, because soon enough if there is demand for the product, competition and market forces will drive down the price.

We have seen this here already. I am sure in a few months or a few years the cost of the SC will be in line with the Greddy kit for the Celica.

If you dont like the price, dont buy it. That is your choice. It is not nice, fair nor appropriate to question things like this on a forum where the seller has supported the group.

Sector 111 did nothing wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
In business there is no such thing as an unfair markup. You charge what the market will bear, because soon enough if there is demand for the product, competition and market forces will drive down the price.

We have seen this here already. I am sure in a few months or a few years the cost of the SC will be in line with the Greddy kit for the Celica.

If you dont like the price, dont buy it. That is your choice. It is not nice, fair nor appropriate to question things like this on a forum where the seller has supported the group.

Sector 111 did nothing wrong.
You're absolutely correct. But it is my right, as a potential customer, to weigh the VALUE of one product vs. another.

I didn't start this tread to discuss markup; I was merely responding to turbophil's attempt to justify the cost difference with "bracket R&D". I don't find "bracket R&D" substantial enough to justify the cost difference....which is why I am exporing alternatives.

I'm not S111 bashing; just trying to learn more about these illusive brackets. I'm starting to see a market void for a reasonably priced Greddy SC conversion kit (brackets only).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hell if you are going to do all that, why not find a way to make the Blitz Celica kit work and give the Whipple charger a try. At least do something different. :)

Toyota Celica GTS 6spd 2ZZGE
I don't understand....what do you mean by "do all that"? :confused:

It is a simple bracket fab. The SC kit and tune are readily available; just need a bracket kit.
 

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All the other kits just need a braket kit as well. Source a SC and manifold then make your brackets.

Of course the Blitz kit has an intercooler too. But making piping is easier than brackets, no CAD involved, just bend and test fit repeat.

But if you are dead set on reinventing the wheel then good luck with it. Keep up with all the costs and time involved and let us know how it turns out. I'm curious to know as well.
 

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You're absolutely correct. But it is my right, as a potential customer, to weigh the VALUE of one product vs. another.

I didn't start this tread to discuss markup; I was merely responding to turbophil's attempt to justify the cost difference with "bracket R&D". I don't find "bracket R&D" substantial enough to justify the cost difference....which is why I am exporing alternatives.

I'm not S111 bashing; just trying to learn more about these illusive brackets. I'm starting to see a market void for a reasonably priced Greddy SC conversion kit (brackets only).

You are right. I would like to retract. It is appropriate to discuss things. I was out of line.

The point I was trying to make is that whatever pricing they did was a good business move and that they did nothing wrong.

People go into business to make money. Anything else is a hobby.

If someone wants to make a "bracket kit" to use the Greddy Celica kit...and charge $1000, or less than the $2000....so be it.
More power to them. That is business.

First to market is always a gamble. Who was to say that Lotus would not have come out with a kit at $3500 before Sector recouped its investment. Whos to say that someone still wont. It is the gamble that justifies markups of some sort or another.
 

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I'd love to see a bracket kit come out personally (as long as it's the same quality/fit/finish as the ones now). Nothing against the vendors here of course. But after spending 12+ years on other types of vehicles I get alot better prices off main brand greddy/blitz/apexi stuff through vendors and friends I've made with my past vehicles than those here who I have spent less than $100 on. Just the way it works. :)
 

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I'm just saying......

To me, it seems like a "conversion kit" is all that was required; not a repackaged SC kit. But wait....the vendor would never be able to justify $2000 for some brackets alone.

I'm sure the brackets cost no more than $50 to manufacture per kit.
I'll take that bet. Go read my thread about what goes into just the packaging of these kits. The kit as supplied by Greddy fails every packing test FedEx has. And that's JUST the packing.

And since you're sure, I'd like to know where you came up with that figure. Do you have any fabrication experience? Have you ever sourced materials? Have you looked at what raw metal prices are lately? Because you're off by a factor of 1000% on bracket cost. And then you've got belts, and pulleys, and uprated hardware, and special shipping materials for your ECU return, and comprehensive instructions... etc, etc.

If you like, give me a call, and I'll be happy to tell you everything we've done to refine this kit. There is even some custom machining that is done to the manifold to make it specific for our cars, where the celica manifold would cause you some problems during installation.

The math is bad also about the price of the kit. We charge $4300, Greddy charges 2900. That's 1400 dollars difference, not 2000. You'll still need charlie's tune, whether you fab yourself or go with us. If you think you can do a full kit within that cost, go for it! ;)

Best,

Cade
 

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Hey, just to be clear, I hope that wasn't taken as me being pissed off, or anything like that. I do understand your concerns, but please take the time to double check your facts or ask us questions before you just post speculative stuff like that. That's how rumors get started.

Thanks!

Cade
 
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