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Discussion Starter #1
I want to see how many continue to dispagage Mr. Hale if he 1. Brings a parts supply/service network to areas of the U.S. that will allow owners everywhere to have their cars serviced nearer to home.
2. Improves 'Lotus' customer service to the level where it reaches the award winning level it did at other brands he ran. 3. Increases production while not sacrificing quality and brings a range of new models on board for us to choose from. 4. Convinces investors that his is a logical, do-able plan for the present and
'long term' future. Many of these things he has already been proven capable of accomplishing and deserves at least a reasonable 'wait-see' time frame before
calling for his head.
 

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I think your approach is sensible, Ridge. Hale hasn't even plopped his ass in his desk chair yet, much less made any changes. If he accomplishes the things you've enumerated, everyone wins... Lotus AND Elise owners.

I don't know Arnie, nor do I have any insight regarding the corporate leadership assignments. But it's possible that the change for Arnie is a lateral move, and maybe into areas he actually prefers. That's just a possibility... but who, ouside of Lotus, really knows for sure?

Just my $.02 worth...
 

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BeerBrewer said:
But it's possible that the change for Arnie is a lateral move, and maybe into areas he actually prefers. That's just a possibility... but who, ouside of Lotus, really knows for sure?
Good point. I know if I were in his position, I'd rather transition to an area where I could be made useful than kept as a figurehead to appease my devoted followers.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Forgive me, but other than ego being bruised, what's so terrible that has befallen Arnie Johnson? The man is a living legend, has his health (as far as I know), is financially comfortable and is able to communicate regularly with a vast array of Lotus tech and exec people whenever he wants. If Lotus has decided they no longer want his guidance or ideas were not talking life and death here. Hale was hired for his ideas and expertise which he deserves to be able to expound on. I'm sure that Arnie replaced someone at some time in his life
and that person could have been somewhat of a legend himself. If that had been the case, would he have done anything different than Hale with regard to acceptance of a position being offered to him ?
 

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Ridge,
Arnie replaced Colin somebody or other who was not really a legend, more "infamous" than anything else, won't go into details on that one. Not to mention the two or three times other "boy wonders" have been put in charge at LCU to stay a year or two, saddle LCU with huge debts and contracts and then disappear leaving Arnie to pick up the pieces.

Chris
 

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I was at the historic cars races at Road Atlanta yesterday and talked to someone who is quite close to Arnie. Arnie has not been reassigned he is out of LUC, this is not good news.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
zvezdah1 said:
Ridge,
Arnie replaced Colin somebody or other who was not really a legend, more "infamous" than anything else, won't go into details on that one. Not to mention the two or three times other "boy wonders" have been put in charge at LCU to stay a year or two, saddle LCU with huge debts and contracts and then disappear leaving Arnie to pick up the pieces.

Chris
Chris: If those hired to analyze the company, on behalf of the people who are investing large sums of their own money, and they come to a determination that Hale is the best way to go, there is nothing else that anyone can do. Now, if Arnie had been able to entice investors, and they would have had to have been large ones, into believing he had the blue-print for success, how come none have ever come to the fore and said, 'Here's all the money you need Arnie, let's implement your all encompassing plan for U.S operations
.' Keep in mind, also, that Proton is looking to get a large car company to get involved with funding for the company and Hale's proven talents at Isuzu and Mazda probably make him more palatable than Arnie. The odds today of being able to keep a small-niche car company like Lotus afloat in the the U.S. market are undoubdtedly considered too much of a long shot for most investors who are determined to keep the company small. That leaves only the 'big boys' to get involved. Doesn't sound like Arnie's 'cup of tea'.
 

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Ridge, if you think recruitment decisions are made by investors with any regularity you're clearly not in touch with business practice these days?!?!?!

The chances are Hole promised Lotus UK management some big market numbers (which they can't deliver against) and Arnie told 'em they were being assholes for the way they have been treating customers, dealers etc.

Thus Arnie fell from grace and became expendable/eclipsed by a pile of bullshit. It happens all the time.... in every business. As has already been very eloquently pointed out, this cycle has happened several times at both Lotus UK and US and WITHOUT EXCEPTION has gone wrong every time. Lotus management has been among the most misguided on the planet and anybody who disputes that needs to read up on their history.

Face it, the ELISE only happened because of Bugatti and Artioli forcing a return to core values - the daft Brits were still betting the farm on the Excel, M100 and mass market appeal.

Hole may well be a competent business man (though what he has just done is a cardinal sin in any business strategy). It is his job to UNITE the management behind him, not sack dissenters.

Less than 2 years from now he'll be moving on...

Paul
 

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Word has it Hale went over the heads of Kiam at Lotus UK and straight to Mahlele a Proton to get this job!
Chris
 

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Chris,
The individual I talked to yesterday at the Historic races agrees with what you have heard, except Hale went to Mahlele's son and convinced him. The word was also that Hale had originally gone straight to Lotus UK for a position not at LCU but at Lotus UK and they wouldn't have any part of him. So he went to Mahlele and no luck, he went to the son and Bingo!
Could things really be this twisted?
 

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Welcome to the harsh realities of the real world. If any of us think we know better I suggest that we get our checkbooks out and buy Lotus from Proton...then you can bring Arnie back.

Some of us may be personal friends with Arnie but I am starting to get tired of people referring to Mr. Hale as Mr. Hole...it may have been funny the first time...

I don't know any of these people but I don't think that this move is going to affect any of us outside of Atlanta. The Elise is still a great car and they will not add cup holders to MY2005:)
 

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I think Patricko's right, like it or not Hale is the CEO of Lotus ops in the US. I think we should use his proper name. Emotions run high on this issue but we really shouldn't insult this man.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I still haven't seen anyone so upset that they are saying, ' take your Elise and shove it, I'm out of here!' I think the word is 'masochist' for those who when feeling abused, keep coming back for more. Time to get some psychiatric help, people. Life is too short to subject yourself to this seemingly never ending pain with no hope of overcoming it by yourselves.
 

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I was merely underlining my support of Arnie (the guy deserves a visible show of support at the very least rather than "well schucks sorry mate but at least I still get my Elise, bye")... and of honour... something which among the VERY best executives in the world remains compatible with good business practice. Strangely it goes out of the window when the less capable are involved.

:rolleyes:
 

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Paul MD said:
[Arnie] deserves a visible show of support at the very least rather than "well schucks sorry mate but at least I still get my Elise, bye"
Support for what, exactly? We don't even know the whole scoop yet and people are planning Hale's execution. For all we know, Arnie was involved in the decision. Not only are you guys killing the messenger, but you're doing it before you even read the freakin message!
 

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Anybody know where to find the financial reports for Lotus and Photon? How much did Photon pay for Lotus? How many shares of stock have been issued and what is their price?

I heard Photon wasnt doing too good from when I found a Malaysan website about 6 months ago. Maybe Hale told Photon he could turn around Lotus and sell it off to another company or get it made for less outside of England. Maybe he told them they can retool a Daewoo plant to make Lotus a a reduced price. :mad:

Does Lotus have it's own separate stock, or is it all owned by Photon, and what stock market is it traded under? What companies or individuals are the major stockholders in Photon?

If we all bought one share of Photon, then we would be able to attend the annual meeting and even propose changes or bring up our recomendations up for a vote. I think we should do this and petiton Photon to have a member on their board who would be a true enthuisist and represent our point of view. Maybe Arnie if his contract permits it or Simon who was member of the year on the SELOC if the board meetings are held in the UK, or the person from Hong Kong (sorry I forgot his name) if the meetings are held in Mayalsia.
 

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xxxotic said:
Maybe Hale told Photon he could turn around Lotus and sell it off to another company or get it made for less outside of England. Maybe he told them they can retool a Daewoo plant to make Lotus a a reduced price. :mad:
Yes, yes, and maybe he kidnapped all the Proton execs and tortured them until they finally agreed to his nefarious plan to turn Lotus into Hyundai. You guys are turning Hale into the Hussein of the automotive industry. Methinks imaginations are fueled by anticipation.

Does Lotus have it's own separate stock, or is it all owned by Photon, and what stock market is it traded under? What companies or individuals are the major stockholders in Photon?
I believe Lotus is a wholly owned subsidiary of Proton, which is not publicly traded.
 
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