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Discussion Starter #1
if this is a repost, then too bad: no i am not doing a search before i post either.
H+N safety devices deserve all the public awareness as possible.

Hans has come out with a new sliding teather that allows the user to have more head movement, which seems to be the only complaint I have heard about wearing the hans device(or why people choose not to wear one).

http://hansdevice.com/Sliding-Tether-System

I am not going to use the new teather, as i dont need to move my head in the formula car much anyway, but for a sedan, this would be a very nice new improvement.

if you are not using a hans or someother H+N restraint IMO your crazy.
if the only reason you wear a harness/belt, or helmet on the track is because the club you run with makes you, that would be the only reason i could see going tracking w/o a H+N restraing device(because they are not yet mandatory).
IMO they should be mandatory.

I will tell you that a friend of mine just broke their neck, and injured their spinal cord, and can now no longer move(quadraplegic).

the < $1K that can prevent this or other neck injuries is a small price to pay, not to mention these items hold their resale value very, very well, and you will really only be out a few hundred dollars after you sell it used when you are done with it.

I have crashed twice while wearing mine, once head on, the HANS worked as advertised, the other, I hit an oil slick and was just along for the ride into a wall. in the oil slick instance the device allowed me to just relax and take the hit w/o worring about my head getting snapped violently. In this instance even though i did not go head on, IMO the device still worked, as i was very relaxed when i contacted the wall, thus escaping injuries from the impact if my body was tensed up.

So lets hear anyones good excuse( i mean reason), for not wearing some type of H+N device?
Go get something, HANS or otherwise.
Fishguy
 

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oh this looks cool, gonna convert mine...so the loop basically just moves side to side in the guides?
 

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That does look quite brilliant - BUT is it SFI 38.1 rated? They don't mention anything about certification on that page, which makes me wonder.
 

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Yeah, I received an email recently from SafeRacer.com touting that they had the HANS Sport Series (decent entry level) with sliding tethers for $710 with free shipping ($695 with standard fixed tethers). This is the model 20 which is intended for an upright seating position like what you would have in a streetable car.

http://www.saferacer.com/hans-sport-series-hans-device.html?productid=1296

There maybe better prices else where and I have nothing to do with SafeRacer (other than being a customer), this thread just reminded me of the email.
 

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I already bought the Scroth harness, which is NOT Hans-compatible, but I guess I can use the Simpson. My question is, can ANY helmet be modified for the anchors, or do you have to get a special helmet as well?
 

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I already bought the Scroth harness, which is NOT Hans-compatible, but I guess I can use the Simpson. My question is, can ANY helmet be modified for the anchors, or do you have to get a special helmet as well?
you've got six point ASM belts... i would check with schroth to see if there are non-ASM shoulder belts that are compatible with the buckle on your set-up.

as for the helmet question, you should probably make an inquiry directly to the manufacturer also.
 

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I love this idea, this and the HANS Sport makes the HANS device even more desirable...I have been troubled by the whole idea of 5pt and 6pt harnesses without a HANS. And the 4pts seem to center on my umbilicus no matter what I do (maybe losing weight would help). The only problem is that I will need new seats, and new holes in the floor for all the anchoring pts...all for 1x/month HPDE/track days...don't know if i can justify all that...
 

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I realize the Schroth ASM 4pt belts instructions specifically state they do not work with HANS. Why is that? Does the Hans prevent the shoulder strap from stretching out?

I was also looking at the G-Force SRS1 h&n restraint which would work with my helmet. Much simpler, tested for 50G impact and it looks much easier to live with for track days. Does anyone have experience with this unit?

http://www.saferacer.com/g-force-srs-1-helmet-restraint-system.html?productid=984
 

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I realize the Schroth ASM 4pt belts instructions specifically state they do not work with HANS. Why is that? Does the Hans prevent the shoulder strap from stretching out?

I was also looking at the G-Force SRS1 h&n restraint which would work with my helmet. Much simpler, tested for 50G impact and it looks much easier to live with for track days. Does anyone have experience with this unit?

http://www.saferacer.com/g-force-srs-1-helmet-restraint-system.html?productid=984

HANS only works when it remains firmly in place. if one of the two belts were to stretch, there would be no way for the HANS tethers to limit your head's movement.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I love this idea, this and the HANS Sport makes the HANS device even more desirable...I have been troubled by the whole idea of 5pt and 6pt harnesses without a HANS. And the 4pts seem to center on my umbilicus no matter what I do (maybe losing weight would help). The only problem is that I will need new seats, and new holes in the floor for all the anchoring pts...all for 1x/month HPDE/track days...don't know if i can justify all that...
you are obviously a smart guy.
can you justify walking, or feeding yourself, or boning your wife.
these are all things that you cannot do if you injure your spinal column in the neck area.
a helmet makes your head even heavier than it already is. when you torso is restained and you now even heavier head is not, think about what can happen.
I hope nobody here never gets to use the device as it is intended, but let me ask you this.
if something bad did happen and the device could have prevented it, while sitting in your chair, how much $ would you spend to get use of your body back?
I never thought something like this would happen to anyone close to me, but it did.
lets prevent things like this if we can in the future for others. thats my only reason for posting this.
my racing is not going to stop, I have always been consistant about on track safety, but i now know how life can be after the fact.................
if you cannot justify the small expense for the right equipment, how can you justify going on the track at all?
remember, the HANS sells used for close to the new price, so you really arent going to lose much on the device, and the seats also hold their value used. dont skimp on safety. when you need the equipment you will be really glad you had it.
I bet the entire deal would cost about $500 for the holes in the floor, and the depreciation on the seats and hans when you sell them used.
IMO its really hard not to justify
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I realize the Schroth ASM 4pt belts instructions specifically state they do not work with HANS. Why is that? Does the Hans prevent the shoulder strap from stretching out?

I was also looking at the G-Force SRS1 h&n restraint which would work with my helmet. Much simpler, tested for 50G impact and it looks much easier to live with for track days. Does anyone have experience with this unit?

http://www.saferacer.com/g-force-srs-1-helmet-restraint-system.html?productid=984
that g-force thing might be better than nothing, but i wouldnt trust it at all.
i have a g-force helmet (for now) and i drilled the anchor points into it for a hans device.
I think the HANS works for all helmets, but must be installed correctly, and the harness angles over your shoulders must also be correct for it to work safely.
 

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That does look quite brilliant - BUT is it SFI 38.1 rated? They don't mention anything about certification on that page, which makes me wonder.
Good question... since the HANS site says that all HANS devices are certified, I assume this includes the sliding tether, but I think I'll call them to double check. Not being able to turn my head far enough to look ahead is my only complaint since getting the HANS.

Fishguy: I'm curious why you don't need to turn your head as much in your formula car. I would think that the faster the car, the further ahead you need to look, no? Looking ahead is a key skill that has helped me go faster and be safer. Is there something subtle about a formula car that makes this less so?

Thanks for the pointer... I plan to get one of these.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Fishguy: I'm curious why you don't need to turn your head as much in your formula car. I would think that the faster the car, the further ahead you need to look, no? Looking ahead is a key skill that has helped me go faster and be safer. Is there something subtle about a formula car that makes this less so?
when i raced a sedan, it took me one session to get used to the HANS. i was amazed at how far my eyes could move in my head, and also relied on properly adjusted mirrors.
i can turn my haed about 30 degrees either way, then add having my eyes move as well, it was never a limitation. the new teather would only help things, but i never was one to complain about the movement limitations.

in the formula car the mirrors only show you what is just next to my rear wheel. usually if i can see someone that close in my mirror, i will yield the position if they are on the inside line. i dont want to touch tires, and if i am the faster car, i will retake the car soon enough.
the movement that i do have is more than enough to see where i am going. i always keep my eyes ahead on the track to look through the next turn (at the apex and exit of the turn).
i guess the visibility is good in the small cockpit, and the fact that the car turns so fast, i have never even been aware of the HANS device in the formula car even being there.
good question though, i never really thought about it until you asked.
the formula car feels like when i was racing motorcycles, really good visability.
I also dont know about faster= looking further ahead, I think i keep focued on the same points of the track regaurdless of speed. you go where you look, and maybe you just have a shorter time to look when you are going faster.
just remember never to get fixated. I use my perifial vision alot, and practice this when street driving. i will work on looking ahead, but still being able to use my side view mirrors, and rear view mirror while keeping my eyes on the road. it helps tremendously IMO.
 

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Fishy and I disagree slightly; in street cars with airbags I don't see the need for a HANS device. However, I also believe that anyone driving a street car on track shouldn't be beyond 7/10ths when I say that.

That's not saying it's a bad thing to install 6 point harnesses and wear a HANS, but I'm not as hardcore that it's something I would require myself to do, because I don't. But again, I don't drive beyond 7/10ths in a street machine, which gives a big margin for dealing with issues.

In my racecar (Spec Racer Ford) I always wear the HANS even if I'm running it at a track day where there's no wheel to wheel passing. Honestly, while the sliding tether is cool (and if I were ordering one now I'd probably get it) it's really not a big deal. The only place were I find myself unable to fully turn my head and have to really turn + swivel my eyes to the max is at Turn 2 at Thunderhill, which is a very long 180 degree sweeper. In the paddock coming in it's a very slight touch limiting if I am coming around a corner where a motorhome is parked, but that's about it.

Steve
 

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Thanks for the insight guys, I really appreciate hearing about how more experienced drivers approach things. I'm finding more and more that, just before turn-in, I look directly at where I want the car to "track out", and use periferal vision to track the apex. In many double corner combinations, I look at the second of the two corners (if visible) and try to envision the proper setup for the line I want in the second corner (especially if it opens onto a straight).

I mostly run at Pacific Raceways near Seattle. I find the HANS stops me from doing this in turn 2 and 3b. At Portland, I don't notice the limitation at all.

BTW: I just called HANS and they told me the slider is indeed fully certified. Looks like a very simple install as the fixed tether anchors are held on by screws which are re-used to anchor the slider "slots".

On the point of only driving at 7/10ths at HPDE events: I'm at the piont where a) that isn't going to be satisfying enough before too much longer and b) I can't afford to wreck my Elise. So, it looks like a dedicated track toy of some kind is in my future. I was eyeballing the Ford spec racer... care to compare and contrast it with the experience of driving an Elise? No idea how much they even cost. If PR ever gets its kart track done, that could be another option as well.
 
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