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Discussion Starter #1
Have to ask.

A few times while agressively shifting, I havent been able to "find" 3rd. It's as if there's a wall there.

On my miata, under full load when drag racing, sometimes it will lock out 2nd or 3rd. This is a fairly common problem with the big power miatas when banging gears.


I had a sport bike behind me today and I took off, banged 2nd, went to throw to 3rd and it just wasnt there, I even searched around a bit..ended up clutch in and coasting for a second and throwing into 4th.

It also did this to me a few weeks ago at the autocross course...went to throw to 3rd and it was just not there.

Anyone else?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ok, good to hear its not just me. I saw where STAN or someone had taken their shift assembly apart, or at least exposed it. Are we thinking its due to "slop" in the linkage or what?
 

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I haven't seen this problem, but haven't driven the car very aggressively yet.
 

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From my experience with midengine Toyota drivetrains... TADTS. You have to be a little more careful in finding the gears.
 

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Had this exact problem w/ my original M3 tranny. I only mention it because your wording of the problem resonates perfectly w/ my BMW experiences.

I think the Elise needs a shortshift kit (I prefer heavier, more machine-like, more notchy throws), but I don't think an SSK will prevent "lock out" problems.

Let's hope this is just a break-in matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
TADTS?

I swear I even searched around....its like it just wasnt there.
I thought it was bizarre because Ive never had a problem finding the gears in the car. Just these two occassions has this happened....it was just like there was a wall there blocking me from going into gear.
 

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I think all of the gears a little vauge, I am going to see if I can't do what Stan did and get some of the slop out of the linkage.
 

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...from my perspective, the shifter may have longish throws...but I'm not particularly unhappy about it as a whole. No real problems finding 3rd or any other gear in my case. Maybe as you get used to the car it will happen less often?
 

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TADTS is what??? Sorry for my ignorance.

When I miss a shift, it's always to 3rd. Uncommon, but it happens now and then. It's not a great shift, IMHO. Luckily in auotX I have yet to use 3rd, and probably never will.
 

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Surferjer said:
TADTS is what??? Sorry for my ignorance.

When I miss a shift, it's always to 3rd. Uncommon, but it happens now and then. It's not a great shift, IMHO. Luckily in auotX I have yet to use 3rd, and probably never will.
They All Do That Sir!

I have often had trouble hitting 3rd in MR2s. It's just a little vague and if you miss the entrance... you will feel like it's impossible to shift. BTDT (Been There, Drove That). Some of that I have always attributed to using a linkage setup because it's midengined.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Stan said:
Maybe as you get used to the car it will happen less often?
I honestly dont think its me. I'd be the first to say so if I thought it was. Im fairly proficent at shifting and Ive not had any problems with my miata tranny or the lotus tranny during normal to spirited driving. But on these two ocassions when Ive been on it 100%, it seems quirky.

Today I thought..well maybe I just missed the gate ....but then I even searched around and it just wasnt there.
 

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I couldn't find 2nd a couple of times yesterday during my test drive. Same deal though -- just couldn't find it so I went back to 3rd.
 

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Second used to be a bit of a pain when downshifting and even upshifting, but I've bitched about the crappy shifter feel (especially going into third) from the start. It's been my observation that all of us are pushing farther to the right than we should. When I have trouble finding third, I make a mental note to pull it to the left a bit. That is scary, though since you don't want to catch 1st!!!
 

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On my test drive, I was shifting quite a lot. It is just so much more fun to shift than my car, and it shifts so much better. But, I did notice third gear was a little hard to find. It seems I had to direct it a little more. Now, it's supposed to push it to the middle anyway, but when you're shifting quickly, you don't want to wait for the gearbox to move the stick there, and I think that was the problem for me. I just thought once I got used to the car, it would be easier to find.
 

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You know what? An ultra fast shift doesn't really cut your autocross times down much..or affect your position much when accelerating next to another car. Since you are moving during the shift period.
 

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Agree completely - 2-3 was not smooth and hard to find - I posted this on my test rive review.
 

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Well if something is going on with the 2-3 shift...maybe it is related to the diagonal movement such shifts require. Is anyone finding a similar issue for 4-5 shifts? Same diagonal movement... And what about 5-4 and 3-2 downshifts?

On some cars with direct linkage shift quality is affected by drivetrain rocking and pitching as torque moves the big lump. BMWs for example. Since with direct linkage if you move the engine/tranny, the gate moves too. So the next gear won't be in the same place it is under lighter loads. On some cars firmer tranny and motor mounts greatly improve shift quality and can reduce or eliminate downshift overrevs.

In our case we are using cables to shift gears. So the setup should be relatively insensitive to drivetrain movement. Since the cables should just flex. Also, some of the Celica GT-S and GT folks like the change in shift feel they notice when using Redline MT90 gear oil, FWIW.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Im hesitant to use the redline, as Ive had trouble with it and gear gnash in the past. I prefer a semi synthetic or even dino oil in the trans. Maybe the toyota trans is different.

Im not trying to bang gears into 3rd, but I am trying to be timely in my upshift. I havent noticed it in any other gear combo, only 2nd to 3rd. I really think this is a mechanical problem and not just driver error.
 

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>>>I havent noticed it in any other gear combo, only 2nd to 3rd. I really think this is a mechanical problem and not just driver error.<<<

Maybe an effort to break-in that synchro might help...

I'm not sure what the best way to do this may be....but I have heard of people doing things like deliberately going into the problem gear with the REVs way off so that the synchos have to work hard to match up the relative speeds. You have to do this with the revs too high as well as too low for the road speed at the time. A mechanic one told me that he likes to gently press the shifter from neutral into a problem gear without using the clutch a few times while the car is stationary. Until you hear that awful sound!! The sound you hear when that happens is not the actual gears grinding. The gears can't really grind as modern transmissions use forward gears that are always meshed with one another. So that grind-me-a-pound noise is actually the synchro teeth gnashing as they try to match speeds and lock the selected gear into driven mode.
 
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