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Discussion Starter #1
I've been trying to be nice to my syncros and double clutch on the downshift. I have no problem when I'm not under braking but could use some tips with the heel-toe. What I find is the travel on the brake pedal to reach significant stopping power is too far. You are well past the point of a blip with the throttle. Is it just me or can you adjust the gas pedal down to facilitate a heel-toe?
 

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I personally like the additional distance of travel on the brake pedal, it works well with my methods of heel-toe.... I have real big feet so the length of my feet may help with the motions better? I did a 300 mile trip today through the Texas hill country and every corner was a heel-toe exercise!!! I love this car!!

I am not sure if the pedals are adjustable....

Adam P
 

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Eyelise said:
I've been trying to be nice to my syncros and double clutch on the downshift. I have no problem when I'm not under braking but could use some tips with the heel-toe. What I find is the travel on the brake pedal to reach significant stopping power is too far. You are well past the point of a blip with the throttle. Is it just me or can you adjust the gas pedal down to facilitate a heel-toe?
If I understand you right, your are saying the brake is past the gas when you want to blip.

Try this: Always brake with your foot in the blip position (covering both pedals but only touching the brake) whether you need to blip or not. This will help you get used to rotating your foot inward as well as the outward rotation we usually associate with heel-and-toe.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'll give it a try. It's going to take a big rotation though.
 

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Eyelise said:
I'll give it a try. It's going to take a big rotation though.
I'm not sure how tall you are, but you can move your right knee toward the steering wheel a little as you do it. Also, if you put the seat one notch further back than normal it might give your knee more room.

I have the same issue on another car, I was going to install stainless steel brake lines and maybe adjust the brake pedal up. I never got around to it though.
 

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You might also try adjusting the throttle pedal. On the eariler Elises, the pedal activates a bell crank that pulls the throttle cable. The link is adjustable in length. There is also a "stop" on the bottom of the throttle pedal that would need adjusting. I adjusted the pedal height 30 years or so on my Elan, and it still works just fine...

Tim Mullen
 

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Eyelise said:
I've been trying to be nice to my syncros and double clutch on the downshift.
Don't bother you're not going to wear it out. The only reason to do heal toe changes these days is to match the engine speed to the road speed on downshifts. Blipping the throttle at any other time just wastes gas. But since most people grew up doing this, they find it difficult to delay the throttle blip long enough to match the left foot coming off the clutch.

Andrew Walsh of 1st Lotus fame in the UK is ace at it. But he recomends not to bother at all instead just don't change down to early to avoid upseting the car.
 

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Re: Re: Heel-Toe & double clutching

iwilson said:
Don't bother you're not going to wear it out.
On upshifts wear on the syncros is minimal. But on downshifts the higher the rpm and the lower the gear the greater the damage if you don't double-clutch. That is why many cars have double or triple-cone syncros on the lower gears.

For example, if you just blip for 1st gear you probably won't be able to get it into gear. If you push hard and it goes in it was at the expense of your syncros. But ff you double-clutch into 1st it goes right in.

Any shift you make that would not have worked on a car without syncros wears the syncros.

But I admit, if you only downshif from low rpm and never downshift to 1st, it doesn't matter.
 

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did they space the pedals out? they feel a bit too far apart from each other now :( i prefered the original S2 spacing.
 

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Eyelise, I noticed the same thing on the LOA tester. I hope the brake is adjustable, but didn't crawl under the dash to check.

I've heard of three different ways to heel-toe:

- brake with the entire ball of the foot, then roll the laces of the shoe onto the throttle
- brake with the entire ball of the foot, then rotate the heel of the foot onto the throttle
- brake with half of the foot, then tilt the right edge of the foot onto the throttle

Personally, I do the last, and there was no way to do that in the tester--the gas is just too high.

I saw a JGTC driver doing the middle option--quite impressive. Of course, it looked like he wore a size two shoe and had a good three feet of clearance between his knee and the steering wheel...

The first method seems like it might be the way to go if the pedals aren't adjustable.

Jim
 

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Stan said:
Hey Adam how do you like the LSS? How about those ao48s? Congrats on your new ride.

Stan,

I havent got my car yet:mad: .. However I do get some seat time in the local demo with lss. Ive put 500 of the 1200 on the odo. I could not EVER see my self without lss. The overall charastics of the car are perfect. Reminds me of my m3, great balance and GREAT feel... The lss car has a hint of understeer at the entrance of the corners when going close to the maxium speed and with little throtal application when exiting you dont get any oversteer, with full throtal exits the rear end will drift which makes for an unnerving experence in the rear engined car!

Since your coming from a performance background I feel the lss car is ideal! I Dont think I would be happy without it, that is after driving the car. I have not driven the base model, but I know that any more understeer on the car would be almost dangerous for my driving style...

Adam p
 

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>>>I've heard of three different ways to heel-toe:
- brake with the entire ball of the foot, then roll the laces of the shoe onto the throttle
- brake with the entire ball of the foot, then rotate the heel of the foot onto the throttle
- brake with half of the foot, then tilt the right edge of the foot onto the throttle
Personally, I do the last, and there was no way to do that in the tester--the gas is just too high. <<<

Some of this sort of thing depends on the pedal layout, pedal styles (floor pivoting), etc. along with what postions your feet can handle.

On my M3 I don't do any of the three methods you noted. I simply place the ball of my foot on the brake pedal with it pointing toward 10:00 in the first place. That is my foot is not positioned vertically, it's pointed to the left of straightup. This automatically puts my heel over the lower portion of the floor mounted gas pedal. So it is very simple to get accurate braking and accurate gas pedal action at the correct time.
 
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