[TTZip]

I ordered some 16x7 and 17x8 wheels and now I want to order a set of Toyo R888 tires to go with it, but I need some guidance. I have already done a lot of reading on here, but I am still missing a lot of information.

I am trying to figure out the best tire width and side wall thickness for my Lotus Exige S.

For the front I seem to have the option of 195, 205, or 215 with a side wall of 45 or 50.

For the rear I seem to have the option of 225, 235, or 245 with a side wall of 40 or 45.

So my question is which size do I choose for the front/rear and what will the differences be in the different width and size. I just need to make sure the tires do not rub.

Please and opinions and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
Alex

 

[brgelise]

My thought is to stay with stock sizes unless
1. You have added major amts of power
2. Your abilities are excellent and you now consider yourself to be faster than the available grip.
3. Track alignment is far more critical than more tire. Remember, more rubber is just more unsprung weight. Weight is the enemy!!
I run -1.6 camber front with 0 toe and -2.6 camber rear with, I believe its 1.5 toe in. Plenty of info on that in this site. We all complain about understeer on the street. That is caused by 2 things, alignment and cold A048's! On my 5th year at track with my Elise. I've got enough seat time and training to have played with and experienced the pros and cons of these items. Good luck and enjoy. Nothing like it out there

 

[shay2nak]

I saw an Exige S with 245 R888s on the stock 7.5" rear wheel and originally I thought they were 225s because they looked pretty narrow. I might try 255 R888 this time on 8" wheel.

 

[brgelise]

Are we changing tire size for performance or just bling?

 

[TTZip]

I am not going for bling (my new wheels are black), but at the same ting I just want everything to look nice to the eye. From what I have read just as shay2nak said the R888 seem narrower than the A048 so I feel I need help with correct sizing. For instance if I go with the 235 rears how wide should the front be to keep the ratio the same? Also which sidewall should I choose? I don't want awkward looking gaps, but at the same time I don't want rubbing.

 

[deddie]

Stick with stock sizes. Any change you make always has a trade-off. If wider tires made a material performance difference, Lotus would have put them on the car. I have no issue on the track with the stock sizes.

 

[shay2nak]

if you go wider than 225/45, use 235/45 and 245/40 will work fine. Keep the fronts at 195/50. I'm using wider rears because I'm putting down much more power now.

 

[TTZip]

I was thinking 235/45 for the rear to help hold higher power and a nicer fit on the 8in wheels, but I am confused about the suggestion of 195/50 for the front. I thought there was a certain ratio that was supposed to be kept between the front and the rear tire size. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[brgelise]

Look at the specs. Your 235 is taller than the 225. The height is more of an issue than the width. Why do you want to lower the final drive ratio - why add unsprung weight and make car slower!!?? Why do all Euro spec Elises run 15/16 in wheels, and we want even bigger? This oversized tire thing is truly an American phenomenon!! Best of luck but Lotus has the sport pack sizing nailed for a good reason. Good luck getting enough heat into the wider fronts unless its 90-100 outside, seriously! I love the feel of the 175's on my fronts for the street, but have to replace because I'm not too fond of the other inherent flaws with AD07's.

 

[shay2nak]

IIRC, people who were using 225s up front were complaining of too much grip at the front and was more difficult to turn. Maybe you can find a 205 or something, but you won't. I don't think it's a big deal to keep the ratio the same.

 

[TTZip]

Look at the specs. Your 235 is taller than the 225. The height is more of an issue than the width. Why do you want to lower the final drive ratio - why add unsprung weight and make car slower!!?? Why do all Euro spec Elises run 15/16 in wheels, and we want even bigger? This oversized tire thing is truly an American phenomenon!! Best of luck but Lotus has the sport pack sizing nailed for a good reason. Good luck getting enough heat into the wider fronts unless its 90-100 outside, seriously! I love the feel of the 175's on my fronts for the street, but have to replace because I'm not too fond of the other inherent flaws with AD07's.

Like I said I am asking this question because I am looking for opinions since I have read on more than one occasion that the R888 are not comparable to the A048 in size. If they are exactly the same size then I will more than likely simply order the stock tire size and call it a day.

 

[brgelise]

Usually, given a certain size, everything is within .1-.2 so no biggie. Guess I'm just very aware that the biggest weakness in our car is a lack of torque so bigger wheels, heavier tires etc are all the definitive enemy. I definitely feel, even on the street, the difference between my stock (base) wheels and my sport pack wheels in the rear and the weight is not a good thing.

 

[fishguy]

I rad the thread though quickly, and i stll cannot see the reason for wanting the r888 over other tires.
if you are doing this for the track, dont buy the R888.
my spec 944 class uses them, and they suck. we all hate them, but currently its the spec tire, so we have no choice.
spec miata is going back to the RA-1 and dropping the R888.
Toyo knows the tires stink, and are trying to do something about it.

if you are going to spend the $, spend it on anything but the R888.
if you are just driving around on the street and want to have race compound tires for some reason............then whatever.

 

[apk919]

I rad the thread though quickly, and i stll cannot see the reason for wanting the r888 over other tires.
if you are doing this for the track, dont buy the R888.
my spec 944 class uses them, and they suck. we all hate them, but currently its the spec tire, so we have no choice.
spec miata is going back to the RA-1 and dropping the R888.
Toyo knows the tires stink, and are trying to do something about it.

if you are going to spend the $, spend it on anything but the R888.
if you are just driving around on the street and want to have race compound tires for some reason............then whatever.

Why do you say they stink? Grip? Wear? Consistency? Wet performance?

 

[shay2nak]

consensus seems to be overwhelming approval of the R888 on this forum. Maybe the Lotus' lighter weight helps tire performance.

 

[fishguy]

Why do you say they stink? Grip? Wear? Consistency? Wet performance?

poor,poor, good, dont know.

poor grip after about the 2-3 session. my sessions are an available time of 20 min practice, 20 min qualifying, and 20 lap race same schedule for both the days for the weekend, the race ends up ~30 minutes. for this wear rate, i may as well be on goodyear 160 slicks.
when they are fresh, first session, the grip is good. after that they are dropping off. by the 4th session, they are now my practice set.

very poor wear. my tires MUST be flipped after 6 sessions, i do this so that i can get the 12 sessions(wow!!!) out of them they they have been giving me before the (outer) edges are corded. I dont like the idea of spending $ to have tires flipped, that are already basically dead.
I/we have changed my/our set-up on the car around, i have changed my driving style around, and they just do the same thing, give up the outer edge while the rest of the tire has tread left. the grip, as i said is long gone after about the 3rd session compared to new.

from what we are getting from the tire guy at the track was first, raise the pressure up to 48 hot, then were were getting, lower the pressures. finally, he told us that toyo knows the tires are not working as they should, and that they are going to be reworked this summer.

My car is NOT the only one having the issues, its all of us.

SM has dumped them as the spec tire, and going back to the RA-1, and we will be also dump them for something, though the RA-1 isnt made in the size we need anymore.


the sidewalls just seem to tuck under the car, no matter what we do.

consistancy?
they are consistanly good the first few sessions, then they are consistantly dead. they also are consistanly wearing much faster than they should.
the tire guy was telling me the (fast)SM guys were shaving them to 1/64-2/64, and using them for 2-3 sessions.

I have not run them in the wet, so i cannot comment, the tread pattern looks like it might be a good rain tire.

I might have a dead one here to snap a picture of it, but i usually leave them with the tire guy at the track.

my spec 944 weighs in at 2625lbs coming off the track
the SM cars are around 2300 lbs

I just cannot see how the loss of a few more lbs i am guessing the lotus is 1900 lbs, plus driver(~200lbs) =~2,100 lbs coming off the track would make them suddenly shine.

likely the difference in being driven hard in races, and being driven under other circumstances is my guess.

I went through 4 sets this season ( 7 weekends with the car)
that was with rotating them EVERY session, and also rotating the more used tires as practice tires with my 2nd set of wheels.


now you know why I think they stink.

 

[apk919]

poor,poor, good, dont know.

Well, I'll agree on wear, although it hasn't been as bad as your experience. I'm using a tire pyrometer to measure temps across the face, and as a result I'm running much lower hot pressures (around 31psi). That might have something to do with the lower weight (although my wet weight w/driver is 2300 lbs).

As far as grip goes... the LCS guys who've run on both R888s and Yoko slicks report a 2 second improvement from the R888s to the harder compound Yoko slicks (on say a 90 second or so lap). That's not a very big difference. I think if you go from R888s to tires with >250 treadwear, you're likely to lose at least 2 seconds

The RA-1s don't look like they come in stock Lotus sizes either (at least for the front). Are they really a different compound, or just a different tread pattern? The UTQG still rates the treadwear at 100 for both tires.

 

[TTZip]

Well I wanted RA-1's, but I can't find them for the life of me in the sizes I was looking at. I am looking for these tires due to great grip and handling. I could care less about the poor wear compared to other street tires. I live in Texas. It is rarely raining and where I live we have great roads to it makes them ideal to use and enjoy as opposed to standard street tires.

Would the Yokohama ADVAN A048 be a better choice over the R888?

Thanks,
Alex

 

[apk919]

Well I wanted RA-1's, but I can't find them for the life of me in the sizes I was looking at. I am looking for these tires due to great grip and handling. I could care less about the poor wear compared to other street tires. I live in Texas. It is rarely raining and where I live we have great roads to it makes them ideal to use and enjoy as opposed to standard street tires.

Would the Yokohama ADVAN A048 be a better choice over the R888?

Thanks,
Alex

Obviously Lotus chose the A048s for some of their cars, so they're not a bad choice. There have been quite a few debates arguing the merits of R888 vs. A048, but you really can't go badly wrong with the Yokos...

 

[TTZip]

I have the A048's on my stock LSS wheels now and I can't really complain. From what I keep reading though everyone says the R888's are better and I am able to get them for cheaper as well. It feels like a no-brainer, but I may be missing something.