The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
So here is the conversation, a friend who loves my 86 Esprit, wants to buy a 87 with no motor, but otherwise is in nice shape. He is suggesting getting a Honda S2000 motor and doing a conversion. The car he is looking at is very low priced, and does include the C35 trans. However I pointed out the Honda motor is counter clockwise rotating, and is a very big issue. He doesn't seem to think this is a show stopper.
Any thoughts?
Regards
Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
I recently went down the path on a project that required some custom machine work. This type of work has become very expensive vs the last time I looked into it over 20 years ago.

Cool project but I would suggest he get some pricing on the cost of the trans adapter, custom transmission ring and pinion parts and the custom clutch before he jumps in.

The price may be daunting especially when compared to the value of the finished project. I would think you could get all that made for $10K,,,,,in reality it would probably be double that based on my recent experience.
 

·
Less is Better
Joined
·
2,679 Posts
D and B-series engines rotated counter clockwise. The S2000 engine and other K series engines are conventional in that respect. He should look for a K-series from an RSX or other FWD platforms. That way he gets the transmission as well, which is excellent. This is the most popular conversion on the Elise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
He should look for a K-series from an RSX or other FWD platforms. That way he gets the transmission as well, which is excellent. This is the most popular conversion on the Elise.
The elise is transverse mounted the Esprit is longitudinal so the transmission will not work at all

I think the Audi V8 with the Audi transmission would be cool and "relatively" easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
603 Posts
Dang and here I have an engine looking for a car...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
The elise is transverse mounted the Esprit is longitudinal so the transmission will not work at all
If there's a will, there's a way. Largely depends on how wide the engine bay is vs. the length of the engine and transaxle. But I imagine frame rails would be in the way... nothing a fabricator couldn't work around.


The S2000 engine (F20C or the F22C) are great engines, but for 7 type of vehicles or Miatas, as you don't need to mod the engines to make them feel potent. Which is good, since the F20/F22 aren't exactly easy to extract more power from NA. The F20/F22 are going on the used market at an average of $2500.

Insert K20/K24 motors, which are great for making a ton of power NA, as well as boosted. Used, you can find them for $1000 on average. That $1500 you save on the F20/F22 can be used for a trans adapter, then you can dump another $5k and build a 400whp screamer.

The cost is oftentimes prohibitive in the miscellaneous column -- The hose adapters, the wiring, the fittings, etc.

General cost for Kswapping something:
  • $1000 - engine
  • $1000 - ecu / kpro
  • $1000 - clutch package (this is on the high side)
  • $600 - wiring harness
  • $300-$600 - intake manifold (depending on if you want the intake to face rear-ward or forward. Cheaper forward)
  • $500-$2500 - custom manifold (depending on turbo or not, cheaper if going NA)
  • $400 - oil pan
  • $500 - $1500 - custom engine mounts (depends on if you can DIY or outsource)
  • $300-$800 - tuning



The cost benefits of kswaps isn't the initial cost of the swap. It's the maintenance and repairs afterwards that is the money saver. You can buy sensors on Amazon for cheap. There's a Honda tuner in every city. You can datalog with Kpro and see what's happening with your car fairly easily.

Downside, if you're a person who saves their car for the next owner and is constantly worried about resale, I doubt resale value for a kswapped Espirit is going to be competitive as a factory powered Espirit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,421 Posts
My $0.02 is that if you got the car cheap enough and you can find a good Lotus motor for a good price, it is going to be a LOT less expensive than trying to custom fit a different motor. There is a whole lot more than just making the motor fit. Mounts must be fabricated, every system must be modified to work with the motor like the electrical, exhaust, cooling, etc. No small job and when you are all done the car would not be worth what a similar car with a Lotus engine is worth even though you may have spent a lot. Another problem, ordering parts and servicing. You can no longer just call up JAE and order an oil filter for instance. IMHO it is always the best plan to try to keep the car as stock as possible for many reasons.
David Teitelbaum
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Another problem, ordering parts and servicing. You can no longer just call up JAE and order an oil filter for instance.
I wouldn't call a Honda-powered car a "problem", since parts are far more readily available than for any factory installed drivetrain.
Case in point, you wouldn't be limited to ONE shop for an oil filter, as you have dozens of options: Honda dealership, Acura dealership, Amazon, Pep Boys, Autozone, NAPA, WalMart, RockAuto, CraigsList, JiffyLube. This goes with virtually every part on a Honda drivetrain. Servicing the drivetrain would also be far easier, since you would just need to find a mechanic who has worked on a Honda - far easier to source than a Lotus mechanic.

To your other points, fully agree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
Like others said, the S2000 and k serie turn on the right side. It is probably not that difficult to fit the Honda with the esprit transmission. But still custom parts to be made. I prefer the k serie Honda engine over the S2000, and more if the engine will be modified since the cylinder are in iron, not the s2000. Many internal parts are similar or the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
And for the original over a modified car, sometime it look like that it is better to have a bone stock useless car than a useful modified car...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,421 Posts
While the parts and the places to buy the parts for the swapped engine may be plentiful, you can no longer get the parts through the typical Lotus vendors. For the owner that does the swap and knows what he did it may not be a problem. It becomes a bigger problem if someone buys the car and doesn't have any or enough documentation to know what was done, what parts and engine was used. This is only for the parts for the engine. Any parts that were custom made that break or wear out would have to be repaired or made again. Many of the engine swaps that I have seen don't look all that good when you look close.Very few turn out professional looking or even work well. Many wind up parked because they got so expensive and did not turn out well.
David Teitelbaum
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
The honda K20/24 is actually the successor of the s2000 f20c/22c. The k is a more advanced engine, so much so that s2000 owners are using the head from the k on their f to get i-vtec. Basically the k has variable timing and vtec, while the f is just vtec. The f does have the frm cylinder walls, these will reduce the weight but are only replaceable if scratched, they cannot be bored or honed (some places claim they can, but honda doesnt). Basically the k is a better engine unless you need to lose a few pounds via the frm cylinder walls. Ps a k24 can be had for less than 1000$
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So, I convinced my buddy that the Honda motor is a no go due to the counter clockwise crank rotation. I am suggesting a Ford EcoBoost 2.3 L crate engine as used in the mustang.
Thoughts?
Regards
Jeff
 

·
Less is Better
Joined
·
2,679 Posts
So, I convinced my buddy that the Honda motor is a no go due to the counter clockwise crank rotation. I am suggesting a Ford EcoBoost 2.3 L crate engine as used in the mustang.
Thoughts?
Regards
Jeff

You convinced him with false information. The S2000's engine is NOT CCW rotation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
The K serie is turning on the same side than usual and the Ecoboost. If you go with an ecoboost 2.3, it will probably cheaper than a modified k20 to obtain the same average power (350 hp). Internally, the Ford engine is a good one with a separated oil pump, good base too. Not the potential of a K20 turbo, but still. The K20 have more potential than the CIVIC Type R turbo also. For track use, I don't know how the Ford is made. The Honda have a strong forged crank, can rev very high easily. Ford have many times cheap cast crank parts and stuff like that into the engine, and don't rev very high. But for sure, My Focus RS is solid and engine reliable. The Honda is magic... Nice!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
You convinced him with false information. The S2000's engine is NOT CCW rotation.
I stand corrected, the S2000 engine does indeed rotate clockwise, one of the exceptions to the honda front wheel drive line up.
Regards
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
H, B series turn ccw, k and s2000 turn cw
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top