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Discussion Starter #1
So how many track days/sessions do you get? Both sets of tires are about $1k but will I only get 4 HPDE days with Hoosiers A6 vs 8 with the Toyo R888 or what? Just trying to figure out my cost per track day for tires and how much I'm willing to spend for extra grip.
Wheels Rota Torque 16X7 front and 17X8 rear on stock 2005 Elise(just pads and micro mirror)

Tires and wheels are for track only no street use at all, have A048 for that.

Sorry for this being my 4th post on almost the same topic :shift:
 

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5-7 days. Depends on the track and how hard you drive. Good upgrade. I also drove them a couple thousand miles daily driving as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
5-7 days. Depends on the track and how hard you drive. Good upgrade. I also drove them a couple thousand miles daily driving as well.
I assume your running R888 and not Hoosiers
 

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Absolute power does what?
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I get about 3-4 days from a set of R888 rears and 4-5 days from the fronts. All depends on your track, suspension setup and how you drive. Hoosiers are measured in heat cycles, not days (but roughly 1-2 days less for them)
 

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Do you drive your car to the track? R888

Do you need to run a quicker lap time at a track day?

If you don't have a rear brace for your inboard toe link, you said your Elise is stock, I wouldn't run slicks.

My 0.02
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Do you drive your car to the track? R888

Do you need to run a quicker lap time at a track day?

If you don't have a rear brace for your inboard toe link, you said your Elise is stock, I wouldn't run slicks.

My 0.02
Guess I should add that info, I do not drive car to track, I trailer it, I don't "need" to run a faster lap time but I also don't "need" a Lotus for a track car :nanner: but I bought the Lotus for its handling abilities why not explore that full potential.

I am stock as far as power and handling modifications but I do have the Sector111 DSBrace kit for my car(should be arriving at my house tonight and installed next week!)
 

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So how many track days/sessions do you get? Both sets of tires are about $1k but will I only get 4 HPDE days with Hoosiers A6 vs 8 with the Toyo R888 or what? Just trying to figure out my cost per track day for tires and how much I'm willing to spend for extra grip.
Wheels Rota Torque 16X7 front and 17X8 rear on stock 2005 Elise(just pads and micro mirror)

Tires and wheels are for track only no street use at all, have A048 for that.

Sorry for this being my 4th post on almost the same topic :shift:
Apples vs. oranges

Hoosiers are also available in R6 (road race compound, as in Toyo R888) and not just the A6 (autocross) compound as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Apples vs. oranges

Hoosiers are also available in R6 (road race compound, as in Toyo R888) and not just the A6 (autocross) compound as well.
Yes I know all of this, which is why I asked how many track days I would get with one vs the other! each costs roughly $1,000 when all said and done, so i am trying to figure out if i get 3 track days with the A6 tires vs 10 track days on the R888 then I will choose the less sticky tire, however if its more like 4 track days on the A6/R6 vs 6 on the R888 i would lean more towards the Hoosiers
i also know there is R6 and A6 compounds but from what i have been reading there is debate as to if the R6 reach's optimum temperature and will my stock handling setup, i think the A6 is a better fit for me.


This is why I have always kept with stock size tires and wheels and factory tire setup because i have asked this questions about 3 times now and not had a single good answer. Choosing tires is the most frustrating thing. I just want to make a decision so i can test out the new set but nothing has pushed me one way or the other yet.
 

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I haven't used slicks because I drive to the track.
I think the R888 last longer than the A048s and are equally as grippy both on the street and on the track. My choice for my regular summer tire now.
Since I use the R888s in the summer on the road as well as track days, I would estimate along with rosscarlson that the R888 rears are good for at least four track days and the fronts at least a couple more. That and maybe 2K miles of street driving on top of that for the rears.
Another consideration is the oil and fuel issues with the higher Gs that come with slicks. I've never had the fuel issue in either my 2005 or 2006 Elise. I have a Moroso pan now and I can say I never had an oil issue with my 2005 with the stock pan using DOT street tires.
 

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Yes I know all of this, which is why I asked how many track days I would get with one vs the other! each costs roughly $1,000 when all said and done, so i am trying to figure out if i get 3 track days with the A6 tires vs 10 track days on the R888 then I will choose the less sticky tire, however if its more like 4 track days on the A6/R6 vs 6 on the R888 i would lean more towards the Hoosiers
i also know there is R6 and A6 compounds but from what i have been reading there is debate as to if the R6 reach's optimum temperature and will my stock handling setup, i think the A6 is a better fit for me.


This is why I have always kept with stock size tires and wheels and factory tire setup because i have asked this questions about 3 times now and not had a single good answer. Choosing tires is the most frustrating thing. I just want to make a decision so i can test out the new set but nothing has pushed me one way or the other yet.
I see.

For Oregon, you might be better off with the A6's due to your cooler temperatures. While the R888 also take longer to reach temperatures, the heat cycles earlier than most tires which practically becomes useless after only a few track days (I hate the R888's). Although I no longer go wheel-to-wheel racing it appears to be the consensus of the R888 users. If you were to go with a harder compound the R6 would be the way to go. Otherwise, the A6 would be a faster tire, albeit wear out much faster than either the R888 or the R6. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the help everybody, i think I am more confused than when I started as i talked to a friend who I found out runs slicks and he is running Hankook Z214 or Kuhmo V710(which wouldn't work since he is on 15/16 and I am 16/17 size) Hankooks are about $350 less than the R6, even though I may not fully heat up the R6, I rarely run when its below 70 degrees so I think I would go through the A6 compound way to quickly. I am going to wait til Monday to order tires and see if I can find out more information. At least once i make this decision I know it will be the right one and I hopefully wont' ahve to do it again. I have also learned a lot about comounds, sizing, wheel selection and much more this past week.
 

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We all agree . On day one Hoosiers are best. A6 in cooler climates, R6 in summer heat basically. On Day 1 A048 is better than R888, but by day 2-3 that advantage is gone and by day 4+ R888's are much better than the dead A048's. Your bang for the buck is the R888 esp if you're not being timed (HPDE) and are having fun. Who cares if you're a second slower at LRP on used tires. If you're driving the tires at their limit you're getting the same car control skills IMHO.
 

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We all agree . On day one Hoosiers are best. A6 in cooler climates, R6 in summer heat basically. On Day 1 A048 is better than R888, but by day 2-3 that advantage is gone and by day 4+ R888's are much better than the dead A048's. Your bang for the buck is the R888 esp if you're not being timed (HPDE) and are having fun. Who cares if you're a second slower at LRP on used tires. If you're driving the tires at their limit you're getting the same car control skills IMHO.
OK here is my question. At day 4+, or 10+ are the R888s stickier than the R6s. I am on my third season for the R6s. I only do maybe 8 days per summer but there you have it 20 days and going on R6s.
 

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Thanks for the help everybody, i think I am more confused than when I started as i talked to a friend who I found out runs slicks and he is running Hankook Z214 or Kuhmo V710(which wouldn't work since he is on 15/16 and I am 16/17 size) Hankooks are about $350 less than the R6, even though I may not fully heat up the R6, I rarely run when its below 70 degrees so I think I would go through the A6 compound way to quickly. I am going to wait til Monday to order tires and see if I can find out more information. At least once i make this decision I know it will be the right one and I hopefully wont' ahve to do it again. I have also learned a lot about comounds, sizing, wheel selection and much more this past week.
Since you brought it up. The Kumho V710's are available in 16's & 17's sizes. They are faster & heat cycles better than the R6, R888, & A048, but only slightly slower (albeit lasts longer) than the A6's.
 

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And then there's the Toyo RA-1... can't remember if they're sold in 16/17 sizes but they're known not to heat cycle out and to be sticky until you cord them so there's major bang for the buck.
 

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As I'm nearing the end of my season I just looked through my logs to see how many days I've gotten so far.

I'm at 31 sessions this season on one set of R888s. The fronts have at least 8 more sessions in them and the rears probably about 4. If you figure 4 sessions a day (if you're doing a standard HPDE day) that's a total of 10 days on one set. Now I'd say 1/3 of those sessions were friends driving my car (newbies, so fast/pushing) and the other 2/3rds were me (I'm rather quick and hard on tires).

The trouble is while I know they have more tread left they are starting to get heat cycled out. While they don't cycle as fast as the Hoosiers they still eventually do - in fact if I cared about being super quick on them I would probably go ahead and pitch them. As I'll only do a few more days on them anyway (saving my Hoosiers for when I want to be fast) I'll probably run them until I see belt. Just hate throwing away tires with tread remaining...

So I'm seeing:
Yoko A005 S01 slicks - 16 sessions (you can go longer but they really fall off here)
Toyo R888s - 32+ sessions and still pretty grippy
Hooiser R6s - 8 sessions (and I hope they have another 8-12 left in them)

doing rough math the Yokos (total hero makers BTW) cost me about $4/minute. Yup, $4/minute. They really are more expensive than drugs...
 

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And also important: if you are running factory camber, you will likely eat the outer edge long before you heat cycle them out.
 

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And also important: if you are running factory camber, you will likely eat the outer edge long before you heat cycle them out.
100% correct. I'm running -2 rear and -2.2 front when I run them and they wear very evenly. I remove a shim and set the fronts to -3.2 when I run slicks or Hoosiers.

Stock you can get about -1.5 all around if you take all the shims out and leave the ABS brackets, if you're running hard at the track I'd suggest that.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I ended up with the R888 tires in 245/40/17 rear and 195/50/16 front. I also had an alignment done at a shop ran by a pro racer and lotus driver to set me up for the track and will be doing V2 arms soon to get better camber.
I may purchase R6 tires for next season but just did toe links and fuel surge is next week and oil pan will be done over winter and I wanted all those done before getting to wild on tires.

Results so far so others can see my thoughts on the R888.
They do have much more grip than my old heat cycled AO48 tires but that's comparing apples to oranges. I am on my third fourth track day with them. One day at Oregon raceway park with 4 sessions, one day at the ridge with 4 sessions, one day at Thunderhill with 5 sessions but two were slow as I was learning the track and one day at Portland international with 7 hard sessions and they look great. I am running a slight bit faster laps than my friend with a supercharged Elise but Dunlop direzza tires. He obviously gets me in the straights but I catch up in the corners. So technically they are making as much difference in lap times as a stock 220hp supercharger would at PIR and we have always been very even as far as driver skill(he was faster before tires).
I would easily expect another year out of the tires before "needing" to change them but I don't know where they will heat cycle out so only time will tell.
My biggest complaint is the sidewall seems to roll more than I would expect. I keep my tires at 25 front and 27 rear for best grip IMHO because beyond 28 rear they start to get a bit greasy and I can feel the sidewalks not be as stiff as other tires but I am no pro so I could be wrong her or not have something setup properly.
 

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I just bit the bullet and ordered the Yoko A005's from Sector111.
Mine were falling off last track day. I do have R888's, but haven't used them at the track yet. Now that its going to cool off a bit in Florida, I would like to stick with Slicks. 16 sessions is about accurate on the use of the Yoko's.
I heard some complaints on the Hoosiers from a Porsche Cayman S guy.
Anyone out there that can give a description of going from Yoko slicks to R888's on the track?
 
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