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I'm not an expert at this, but it looks like this conversation that we are involved in counts as a Post? I have a 2006 NA Exige and would like to add the REV400 SC to a stock motor (Oil pan and Clutch have been upgraded) What seems to be the boost/HP that a stock Motor can tolerate?
 

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I'm not an expert at this, but it looks like this conversation that we are involved in counts as a Post? I have a 2006 NA Exige and would like to add the REV400 SC to a stock motor (Oil pan and Clutch have been upgraded) What seems to be the boost/HP that a stock Motor can tolerate?
The trans is more likely the limiting factor more so than the motor.
 

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As @4380r said, the trans is the weakest link. If you are planning on tracking or drag racing the car, you will destroy 3rd or 4th gear sooner or later. What seems to be more of an issue is that the tunes for the OEM ECU do not handle high HP track use. Just about everybody I have talked to has popped a motor when they have tried to push in to the mid 300 HP and up range. I have a local friend that installed the REV400 and I had him detune the car so that he is around 280+ wheel HP. The car accelerates so fast that it is almost impossible to not hit the rev-limiter in 1st gear. Also, you cannot speed shift the trans or you will end up destroying the syncros.

My engine builder tells me that 400+ HP should be an all day thing with the built 2ZZ. So, if you want to go that route, I strongly suggest and aftermarket ECU.

So, stay around the 325+ or less, at the crank, and I think you will be find on a stock motor. There are a few others on here that will chime in and they also have extensive knowledge.

Later,
Eldon
 

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I'm not an expert at this, but it looks like this conversation that we are involved in counts as a Post? I have a 2006 NA Exige and would like to add the REV400 SC to a stock motor (Oil pan and Clutch have been upgraded) What seems to be the boost/HP that a stock Motor can tolerate?
I don't believe you have to start 10 threads, you have to reply 10 times to something or other. You're almost there.
What I've read if you go over 300 HP your trans is at a higher risk for failure. Obviously with engine tuning there are far more variables than the peak HP the car puts down at the dyno.
All this coming from me with a completely stock car.
 

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07 Aspen White Exige S - MT
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As @4380r said, the trans is the weakest link. If you are planning on tracking or drag racing the car, you will destroy 3rd or 4th gear sooner or later. What seems to be more of an issue is that the tunes for the OEM ECU do not handle high HP track use. Just about everybody I have talked to has popped a motor when they have tried to push in to the mid 300 HP and up range. I have a local friend that installed the REV400 and I had him detune the car so that he is around 280+ wheel HP. The car accelerates so fast that it is almost impossible to not hit the rev-limiter in 1st gear. Also, you cannot speed shift the trans or you will end up destroying the syncros.

My engine builder tells me that 400+ HP should be an all day thing with the built 2ZZ. So, if you want to go that route, I strongly suggest and aftermarket ECU.

So, stay around the 325+ or less, at the crank, and I think you will be find on a stock motor. There are a few others on here that will chime in and they also have extensive knowledge.

Later,
Eldon
This is good info, and don’t go Rev400 you can build the same thing for far less with aftermarket ECU. BOE stands for blowing others engines and their support is terrible.
 

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This is good info, and don’t go Rev400 you can build the same thing for far less with aftermarket ECU. BOE stands for blowing others engines and their support is terrible.
The OP car is NA you're saying a standalone will make more power than a REV400?
 

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No, I’m not saying that at all, and you darn well know exactly what I meant. With the same 1320, he can make more power and spend about 1/2 the coin.
Ok so standalone vs Fastworks tune got it.
 

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Ok so standalone vs Fastworks tune got it.
Fast works is a joke. The end user cannot manipulate it. If you have the old software where you have the client that allows the end user to change it, then that’s one thing, but the days of sending in your ECU for a “tune” need to go away, as they’re just a “guess”, hence why so many blow up their rigs.
 

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What aftermarket ECU do you recommend or suggest?
I don’t recommend anything as that’s for the end user to decide, but it all truly depends on how deep your pockets are and what tuner you’re going to use / have experience with. Me personally I decided on the ECU master full system and it has some teething issues, but so far the car is running fantastic, and better than it ever has and I have full control over every single aspect of the car from the engine to the dash.
 

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I've been 350rwhp no problem on a built 2zz for 10 years on one of my Exige...
Yes, you can get away with this for street use because you never push the motor hard for any length of time. If you tracked the car and I don't mean just drive it around the track, you would have most likely detonated the motor and windowed the block via a connecting rod. Most likely before that, you would have stripped either 3rd or 4th gear and also rebuilt the trans because you lost 2nd gear syncro.

You can get this kind of HP for street use because your are not pushing the components for any duration. This is why you see so many K motor conversions for serious track use. I still believe that if you went to an aftermarket ECU, which most of us cannot do because of emissions testing, that you could build a very reliable, high HP 2ZZ motor. You are still going to have to do some trans work but that is a known solution.

Later,
Eldon
 

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Yes, you can get away with this for street use because you never push the motor hard for any length of time. If you tracked the car and I don't mean just drive it around the track, you would have most likely detonated the motor and windowed the block via a connecting rod. Most likely before that, you would have stripped either 3rd or 4th gear and also rebuilt the trans because you lost 2nd gear syncro.

You can get this kind of HP for street use because your are not pushing the components for any duration. This is why you see so many K motor conversions for serious track use. I still believe that if you went to an aftermarket ECU, which most of us cannot do because of emissions testing, that you could build a very reliable, high HP 2ZZ motor. You are still going to have to do some trans work but that is a known solution.

Later,
Eldon
Very true. I don’t know exactly what my HP is yet on my recent build, but I can tell you it’s way more controlled now and especially with the warnings in cockpit I’ve setup for knock and such to tell me what’s going on in the back with the rubberband.
my car has never been more dialed in than right now, and it’sonly the beginning of tuning, but it’s light years ahead of the crappy OEM ECU and or BOE tuning on it.
 

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Yes, you can get away with this for street use because you never push the motor hard for any length of time. If you tracked the car and I don't mean just drive it around the track, you would have most likely detonated the motor and windowed the block via a connecting rod. Most likely before that, you would have stripped either 3rd or 4th gear and also rebuilt the trans because you lost 2nd gear syncro.

You can get this kind of HP for street use because your are not pushing the components for any duration. This is why you see so many K motor conversions for serious track use. I still believe that if you went to an aftermarket ECU, which most of us cannot do because of emissions testing, that you could build a very reliable, high HP 2ZZ motor. You are still going to have to do some trans work but that is a known solution.

Later,
Eldon
Yes, the heat load of a truly tracked car are vastly different than a high HP street car.

Back to the OP's original question, our experience is that the stock 2zz tolerates the Rev400 for street and autoX use very well. Our car dynoed at 290rwhp on pump gas through a stock cat. That car has seen many autoXes and 1 track day. I would want to upgrade the engine if it was to see regular track duty. It had a Kold-Fire tune and was upgraded to FastWorks long ago.
 

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OP has not asked any follow ups. So, I'll just comment on a few different viewpoints.

I as well as several other people I know have been running turbocharged 2ZZGE engines for many years. In the Spyderchat community you will find this is a very common build. Not exactly the same as supercharged but 250-300 WHP are pretty regular numbers. There are quite a few well past 300 WHP that are pretty reliable on the street. Again, that is for STREET use.

The thing with the 2ZZ is the knock levels shift with timing very quickly once load is applied. For example a couple pulls and the engine is fine. But, after 10 pulls the timing required to avoid significant knock shifts like 3-4 degrees even at low boost! The coolant does not show this at all and there are no significant sensor readings that would let you know the engine is in a more knock prone state (other than the knock sensor). From a controls perspective it looks identical. So, take a 2ZZ that was tuned on the street or transient dyno pulls and it will blow up on the track. I think this is a big part of why people say these engines don't do well on the track. It is also very hard to detect low level knock that causes hot spots because the engine is internally quite noisy. Additionally, there is a resonance right around 7k RPM that can potentially hide some knock as well.

TL:DR, The 2ZZ really needs to be tuned under prolonged high load to keep from blowing up at the track. However, just under 400 HP is achievable on an intercooled turbocharged street tune until your transmission lets go.
 

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OP has not asked any follow ups. So, I'll just comment on a few different viewpoints.

I as well as several other people I know have been running turbocharged 2ZZGE engines for many years. In the Spyderchat community you will find this is a very common build. Not exactly the same as supercharged but 250-300 WHP are pretty regular numbers. There are quite a few well past 300 WHP that are pretty reliable on the street. Again, that is for STREET use.

The thing with the 2ZZ is the knock levels shift with timing very quickly once load is applied. For example a couple pulls and the engine is fine. But, after 10 pulls the timing required to avoid significant knock shifts like 3-4 degrees even at low boost! The coolant does not show this at all and there are no significant sensor readings that would let you know the engine is in a more knock prone state (other than the knock sensor). From a controls perspective it looks identical. So, take a 2ZZ that was tuned on the street or transient dyno pulls and it will blow up on the track. I think this is a big part of why people say these engines don't do well on the track. It is also very hard to detect low level knock that causes hot spots because the engine is internally quite noisy. Additionally, there is a resonance right around 7k RPM that can potentially hide some knock as well.

TL:DR, The 2ZZ really needs to be tuned under prolonged high load to keep from blowing up at the track. However, just under 400 HP is achievable on an intercooled turbocharged street tune until your transmission lets go.
Great info, and I can concur on the knock as since going stand alone and able to view my knock sensor logs and real-time on screen knock levels, it’s a noisy motor but once you get hammering on it, if you’re not using a high quality fuel, it’s very prone to knock and det. Have not put new build on dyno yet, but I’m predicting I’m in the 325-345 range currently on a conservative 75mm running MS109.
 
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