The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 84 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Is it worth the power upgrade? How much quicker is it 0-60 and 1/4 mile?
^^What he said. You're talking maybe a couple of tenths each.

BUT, Car and Driver has run both in its annual Lightening Lap contest around VIR, and they were significantly quicker in the S220. Of course there are variables, but that's true of looking at any performance stat.

When the results of the S260 came out, it created all kinds of howls saying the S260 was an already flogged press car and had not been properly prepped. Of course, it is likely the S220 was a thoroughly flogged press car that had not been properly prepped.

Bench racing is fun.

Of course...the SC Elise was significantly slower than the normally aspirated Elise in the Lightening Lap, so all this stuff needs to be taken with a BIG grain of salt.

I think the S260's may have the narrower LSS wheels, thereby putting a slightly smaller contact patch down up front. May have an impact on cornering.

Or may not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,147 Posts
What's the $$$ difference that you're looking at? Personally, I'm not a "keep it stock" kind of guy, so the cost of a 220 (or even an NA) plus a supercharger upgrade is way less than the price of a 260, and makes more power. Yes, the 260 has some nice CF bits, but they don't make a huge difference to me.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,817 Posts
^^What he said. You're talking maybe a couple of tenths each.

BUT, Car and Driver has run both in its annual Lightening Lap contest around VIR, and they were significantly quicker in the S220. Of course there are variables, but that's true of looking at any performance stat.

When the results of the S260 came out, it created all kinds of howls saying the S260 was an already flogged press car and had not been properly prepped. Of course, it is likely the S220 was a thoroughly flogged press car that had not been properly prepped.

Bench racing is fun.

Of course...the SC Elise was significantly slower than the normally aspirated Elise in the Lightening Lap, so all this stuff needs to be taken with a BIG grain of salt.

I think the S260's may have the narrower LSS wheels, thereby putting a slightly smaller contact patch down up front. May have an impact on cornering.

Or may not.
Actually, the Sport 260s have wider wheels all around, 16x7 in front, 17x8 in back. Assuming you mean the Sport 260 and not one of the "final edition" S 260s. Anyways, I think the OP was wondering it it was worth upgrading a 220 S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
What's the $$$ difference that you're looking at? Personally, I'm not a "keep it stock" kind of guy, so the cost of a 220 (or even an NA) plus a supercharger upgrade is way less than the price of a 260, and makes more power. Yes, the 260 has some nice CF bits, but they don't make a huge difference to me.
And upgraded subframe, brakes, launch control....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,486 Posts
Actually, the Sport 260s have wider wheels all around, 16x7 in front, 17x8 in back. Assuming you mean the Sport 260 and not one of the "final edition" S 260s. Anyways, I think the OP was wondering it it was worth upgrading a 220 S.
Possibly, it read to me like asking if the power upgrade represented in the S260 is worth the cost over an S220.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,360 Posts
is it worth the difference: No way when an 07 is 38-40k and a 260 is like 20k more? I am a fan of stock performance over aftermarket usually....but lotus upgrades are pretty much equivelant in quality and thought to aftermarket if you catch my drift.

You can spend a few thougsand upgrading an 07 s and it will definitvely run away from any factory 260 car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,200 Posts
Gotham tune on a 220 and you are there as near as makes no difference for $400.
 

·
www.theapexinn.com
Joined
·
11,685 Posts
because...........straight line speed is all that matters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Last I checked 4.0 0-60 pretty damn fast enough. If you want the s260 you're paying for the exclusivity and a few added bits. $400 for a gotham tune and you have the same power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Hold on a second

Quite true. I don't know the performance benefits of the subframe, but the brakes are not overly expensive, and to me the launch control is just not a very useful addition.

That's all just my opinion.
:no:

The sub frame is for lateral stiffness - traction on a track. I agree about launch control but it will compensate for some drivers. Your idea of what is cheap for brakes and mine seem to differ. Granted they are as pricey as carbon ceramic brakes but it certainly isn't Chevy Cavalier territory either.

$5387.71 for AP big brakes (AP Brakes)

$3520 from BRG (BRG AP brake kit)

- or for $ 1499.99 you can get the 'value' BBK brakes(308vBBK - Value Big Brake Kit)

:huh:

OK so let's continue with this for the original posters benefit...

$135.00 for stainless brake lines (stainless lines)
$3734.50 for Ohlins (although not CUP but close Ohlins)
$116.26 for an Odyssey PC 680 battery (does not include Lotus Sport bracket)(Amazon)
$940.31* Accusump (hangar111 Lotus Sport Accusump kit)


Exterior/seats:
Carbon fiber side scoop LH Exige only $552.78* (cf side scoop)
Carbon fiber side scoop RH Exige only $552.78* (cf side scoop)
Carbon fiber front splitter Exige only $1,223.39* (2009 Sport CUP cf splitter)
Carbon fiber front access panel LH Exige only $1048.72* (cf front access panel)
Carbon fiber front access panel RH Exige only $1048.72* (cf front access panel)
Carbon fiber roof Exige only $4,796.06* (cf roof)
Carbon fiber rear wing 2009 Exige $2,152.53* (09 SPORT/CUP cf WING)
Carbon fiber tailgate Exige only $4,416.40 (cf hatch)
Carbon fiber drivers seat Exige only $3,222.26 (BRG Seats)
Carbon fiber passenger seat Exige only $3,222.26 (BRG Seats)
Team Dynamics Racing Ultralights (2009 SPORT/CUP) $2,750.00 (260_cup_wheels)

Interior:
Fascia top panel Elise/Exige $4,115.83* (cf dash)
Sill trim panel RH Elise/Exige $813.63* (cf sill)
Sill trim panel LH Elise/Exige $813.63* (cf sill)
‘A’ post trim panel RH Elise/Exige $662.15* (A Post trim panel)
‘A’ post trim panel LH Elise/Exige $698.75 (LCUSA)
Carbon fiber switch panel 2 switch $462.78* (see 2 switch panel)
Carbon cover ‘A’ post panel aperture $498.66* (cf panel)
Alcantara Console $425.50 (Alcantara-Center-Console)
*converted UK prices to $ - not including shipping, taxes or installation

Total that up and it comes out to about $45,145.16 for the Sport/Cup 260 parts! :eek:

That doesn't even include some additional parts (alcantara door panels, panel in place of back window, carbon fiber panel in rear clam hoop, rear sub frame or intercooler U pipe's) and none of this includes body work, installation or cost of time.

To be truely effective, modifications tend to cause a domino effect. Once you upgrade one compenent, you will likely have to upgrade another. I have seen many on these forums who go out and buy the Gotham, Blade 300 or whatever and plug it in and boom - instant 'badder-than-a-factory-260' Exige. :no: Check back with them in a few months or years and see how their transmission is doing and how many they have had to replace. The gearbox on these cars is a known weak point. There are a whole series of correlating items you need to enhance once you change other elements. Sadly, from my years I tend to see most who do this only hang on to the car till a problem develops then pass it on to be the next owners headache.

Bragging rights really isn't a good philosophy to buying a car. There is always something bigger and badder coming.

Here is my perspective - if you invest and make any sequence of the purchases outlined above to modify an existing Exige to be like a Sport/CUP 260 - you still have that type Exige after all is said and done anyway. When/if the car is sold, you will not get the expense back out. This has been the circumstances with cars for ages - look at Hot Rods, Customs, the custom Honda's and such. Heck - take a Fiero and put a Ferrari kit on it and it is still a Fiero. Look at these 'clones' of collectible cars out there - the 'faux' Hemi Cuda, the fake GTO or Judge. Adding $40k + to an existing Exige to replicate a Sport 260 seems pointless.

Now, could you go an aftermarket route and come out with something better? Perhaps. You can get alternates of many of these parts elsewhere for cheaper (like the value BBK brakes). There are Chinese carbon fiber side scoops, imitation and fake carbon fiber to and a plethora of choices and quality for many other parts.

Let's take this point even further...Can you get another Exige variation to perform as good or maybe even better than a Sport/Cup 260? Sure. :rolleyes: I have no doubt about it. But then again, as I mentioned above, there is also a risk it could perform worse from piecemeal upgrades.

There will be endless arguements over what the right course is. Ultimately it comes down to you. What do you want, how do you intend to use the car, what kind of driver are you (skill level) and what is your ultimate cost of enjoyment? If you like to monkey wrench and are skilled to do your own work - wish to take time to do upgrades - then you have more choices of the path you can take.

To me, personally, the biggest benefit of the Sport/CUP 260 compared to a modified Exige - it that it is a designed and engineered package. I don't have to tune my wing because of a splitter change. I don't have to upgrade my brakes or transmission because of the added HP. It is all there and done with light weight and balance in mind. The back window being removed, the battery and placement of the accusump - the cf access panels to the rear sub frame changes - all work together and are balanced.

The Sport 260 (again not to be confused with the Final Editions and RGB) is a street legal homoglated CUP car. As far as S2's go and for the foreseeable future in the US - the Sport 260 is the ultimate Exige. The SPORT/CUP 260's are a phenominal buy right now (generally selling between $60k to $72k) and given the continued increase in cost of cf parts, the rarity (58 total in North America between 09 and 11). There are more F40's and Veyrons in this country. The long-term potential is even greater as condition and attrition wear the numbers down and make the cars even rarer.

I can tell you I am not a professional driver and can't get that extra tenth out of the car (an 09 Sport 260)- I couldn't do it with my previous Exiges either (06 and 07 S). If you can master a normally aspirated 2006, a supercharged 220 or even a 240 - then yeah - the 260 is what you need to get that extra performance for the best cost ratio. If you have the technical aptitude (suspension, aerodynamics, mechanical) and wish to put time and more money into the car down the road, then there is a lot of potential starting out with a less expensive Exige. If you aren't at 10 out 10 as a driver, then you will get the same enjoyment out of a 2006 as you will any 260.

:shift:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,360 Posts
In lotus world the majority of aftermarket components are engineered better than the OEM standard. This is of course the opposite of many mainsteam manufactures.
 

·
He's on fire!
Joined
·
3,087 Posts
To be truely effective, modifications tend to cause a domino effect. Once you upgrade one compenent, you will likely have to upgrade another. I have seen many on these forums who go out and buy the Gotham, Blade 300 or whatever and plug it in and boom - instant 'badder-than-a-factory-260' Exige. :no: Check back with them in a few months or years and see how their transmission is doing and how many they have had to replace.
I agree with you on the whole... but tell me how lotus has changed the transmission to handle the added power?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
From the 2009 Sport/Cup 260 press release (11/08). Highlighted in red...

The supercharged and intercooled engine in the Exige Cup 260 has a maximum power output of 260 PS (257 hp) at 8000 rpm and a torque figure of 236 Nm (174 lbft) at 6000 rpm. This significant amount of extra power and torque now available together with the VVTL-i variable cam system ensures that there is a smooth and linear delivery of power from low engine speeds all the way to the maximum 8000 rpm (8500 rpm transient for 2 seconds). The Roots-type Eaton M62 supercharger (with a sealed-for-life internal mechanism meaning that it does not require the use of the engine’s oil) is run from the crankshaft and has an integral bypass valve for part load operation. Charge air (air under pressure from the supercharger) is cooled through an air-to-air intercooler (the air enters via the enhanced roof scoop) before being fed into the engine itself. All charge air ducting has been kept as short as possible with large diameter pipes to minimise restriction and maximise throttle response and efficiency. Four high capacity injectors and an uprated fuel pump add additional fuel under hard acceleration or continuous high speed driving.

A lightweight flywheel is fitted (giving even greater flexibility and response to the gear change), a sports-type clutch plate and heavy duty clutch cover transfer the engine power and torque to the lightweight C64 six-speed gearbox (with an aluminium casing) – with the same perfectly spaced ratios as the Exige S. A torque-sensing limited slip differential is fitted as standard, with a plate type limited slip differential available as an option. An Accusump (engine oil accumulator unit) is included in the whole package as an oil reservoir back-up for extreme track use ensuring that, under those conditions, the engine oil pressure remains constant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,182 Posts
From the 2009 Sport/Cup 260 press release (11/08). Highlighted in red...
The highlighted portion in red does NOT make the transmission stronger.

The s260 cars have the same weak transmission internals as the S240, S220, Exige NA, Elise SC, Elise. :shrug:

If you are talking about reference to the LSD that is a moot point because it is available as an option in almost all models. As for the super sweet lightweight flywheel and clutch:
A) Most people with regular Elise/Exige at the level of power of an S260 (230ish whp) don't even need to upgrade their clutch.
B) Even if they do aftermarket units are cheap and work well.

I also tend to side with the OEMs when it comes to building the cars well for performance/reliability, but just as everyone has already noted the aftermarket for the Elige is surprisingly good. Most aftermarket pieces are well engineered solutions that don't break the bank.

The truth is you can really easily take an S220, and in terms of performance/reliability, eclipse the S260 without spending much. Certainly much less than the difference in upfront cost.
 
1 - 20 of 84 Posts
Top