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Absolute power does what?
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Discussion Starter #1
Out at the track today I had a pretty big spin/off. No damage or anything but it's going to take a few hours to get all the dirt out. I was running on Hoosiers (first time but I've run Yoko slicks many times), med temp day and I was probably pushing at 9/10s of my limit (so pretty quick).

As you'll see in the video I'm coming through a down-hill off-camber left hander. I didn't do data overlay on this one but I'm going about 55 I'd guess. I know what my mistake was (I got on the gas just a tad too early) but what I'm after is why I didn't catch and hold the slide and eventual spin. I have 2 theories - but first here's the video:


I believe 2 things happened
- My car has traction control and I've never been able to disable it. That's a long story for another thread but just know I have TC and it's always on (fortunately it isn't very invasive at all). But when I do slide the car it comes on from time to time - I suspect it cut my power as I see that my right foot is firmly planted (until the true spin when I hopped on the brake)

- I think I unwound too early (real problem). I felt that I'd really cranked in a lot of opposite lock so I was thinking I needed to get it unwound before it just became so far I'd never be able to whip it back around in time. I think in doing so I unwound too early/quickly so when the front end caught it shot me back the other way.

My car is generally very balanced so it's pretty rare it steps out on me - as such it's one of the weaker aspects of my driving hence me soliciting opinion here.

Thanks guys,

-Ross
 

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Maybe it was that edge you caught, which caused the grip to change? But dang! I thought you had it! I did a similar thing in an mr2 turbo just last week.
 

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Looks like the entry of the first part of the corner you may have hit the rumble strip/white paint which let the back of the car slide out (Looks like the rumble strips/pavement had a 90 change at about 1.5 secs). Then as Michael Waltrip said once " I Got a little behind in my steering", that caused the second part of the spin.


Or you got distracted by your passengers legs ( you knew somebody was going to say something:D)
 

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The more I watch it the more I am saying you hit a rumble strip wrong. Watching your hands you turn into the left, turn into the left, turn into the left, then about the times it looks like the car would get to the rumble strip/white paint, your hands go from a left turn in to a quick right flick (about 1/8 of a turn), back to the left, then you turn right trying to catch the slide.

All kidding aside, if you watch your passengers knees at that same time they go from the right side of the seat, to the left of the seat and then back to the right.

Did you have the g-force data channel recording them?
 

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.....
Or you got distracted by your passengers legs ( you knew somebody was going to say something:D)

Yeah buddy.... what's the story on the legs, anyhow? (I entirely missed the spin)
 

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Absolute power does what?
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Discussion Starter #7
way too much steering input


The car was stable as soon as second 3 begins, although you still had opposite lock. The car went where you told it to go.
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. Wasn't really asking about why I spun but rather why I didn't catch it.

Yeah buddy.... what's the story on the legs, anyhow? (I entirely missed the spin)
Careful guys - it was my good friend's 15 year old daughter. Her second time on the track (once with her dad in a Cayman S so my car was a bit different for her).
 

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lol I was expecting him to say it was a dude
 

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Looks like you missed the apex of that turn. Turn in was too early and your line was too low.

Than being said, it looks like your left inputs to the wheel were ok and you had no reason to change it to the right. If anything, your inputs should have been to stop inputting left and just let the wheel straighten out till you cleared the strip.

Props for posting the vid.
 

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When the second swing started, were you trailing throttle?

If so, you might have been well-advised to bash in the clutch instead.
 

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Skip Barber Racing School teaches "CPR"

Catch - "catch" the spin by opposite steering input
Pause - "pause" (don't keep cranking in steering) until the rear wheels grip
Recover - "recover" by *quickly* returning the wheel to center.

The most common mistakes (and believe me, we all do this) are 1) too much steering input on the "catch" phase, and 2) not being quick enough on the "recover" phase, leading to a "tank slapper", and possibly a spin.

You almost always have to turn the wheel more quickly during the "recover" phase than the "catch" phase... so the more you turn the wheel when you "catch", the less likely you are to make a smooth recovery.
 

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Absolute power does what?
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Discussion Starter #13
Skip Barber Racing School teaches "CPR"

Catch - "catch" the spin by opposite steering input
Pause - "pause" (don't keep cranking in steering) until the rear wheels grip
Recover - "recover" by *quickly* returning the wheel to center.

The most common mistakes (and believe me, we all do this) are 1) too much steering input on the "catch" phase, and 2) not being quick enough on the "recover" phase, leading to a "tank slapper", and possibly a spin.

You almost always have to turn the wheel more quickly during the "recover" phase than the "catch" phase... so the more you turn the wheel when you "catch", the less likely you are to make a smooth recovery.
CPR - I like it, especially coming from APK. All these TLAs are making me dizzy....

As I was in the first slide I was sorta thinking exactly this. "****, I have a lot of steering dialed in and I'm not going to be able to untwist it quickly enough - I know let's start pulling a bit out now as I don't have grip anyway.... SPIN!" The main issue here is I had to think about it rather than just knowing what to do. While I've had lots of oversteer experience (I do snow/winter racing every year) my car so rarely slides that I'm just not as good with it. And the reality is I made my mistake 3-4 seconds before the spin - as such I was going around...

At a minimum I figured you guys would get a laugh - actually shocked how long it too until someone comments on the legs in the passenger seat :)
 

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way too much steering input


The car was stable as soon as second 3 begins, although you still had opposite lock. The car went where you told it to go.
Yeah - that is a lot of dog paddling on the steering wheel.
I cannot tell where the wheel was pointed.
Usually when I move my hands on the wheel it means trouble is near by.
 

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Skip Barber Racing School teaches "CPR"

Catch - "catch" the spin by opposite steering input
Pause - "pause" (don't keep cranking in steering) until the rear wheels grip
Recover - "recover" by *quickly* returning the wheel to center.

The most common mistakes (and believe me, we all do this) are 1) too much steering input on the "catch" phase, and 2) not being quick enough on the "recover" phase, leading to a "tank slapper", and possibly a spin.

You almost always have to turn the wheel more quickly during the "recover" phase than the "catch" phase... so the more you turn the wheel when you "catch", the less likely you are to make a smooth recovery.
QFT :tadts:
 

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Cool of you to post the video. I'm sure that was interesting for your passenger.

I won't critique the line because 1) it looks viable to me, 2) I'm no expert and 3) even pro drivers miss corners. You are mainly concerned about not compounding the problem with a spin for next time. My opinion is not that you unwound too quickly but that you went back past straight when you unwound (and you did it very fast). I paused the screen and you had the wheel past a quarter turn to the left instead of returning wheel to the center. Your hand speed (which is impressive) is such that the back end then continued to the right. You counter steer that but you have slowed to the point that you have grip and the car shoots to the right (tail to the left). On the skid pad, the worst spins are always after getting the car balanced in a drift but then it suddenly suddenly catches traction due to a dry spot (in this case increased traction from scrubbing speed). Car shoots off before you can catch it.

Very close to a nice catch. I don't have any experience with oversteer myself but I'd like my next track car to be rwd.
 

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Careful guys - it was my good friend's 15 year old daughter. Her second time on the track (once with her dad in a Cayman S so my car was a bit different for her).
In order to properly evaluate your improvement, we demand that a new video be posted in three years.
 

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Careful guys - it was my good friend's 15 year old daughter. Her second time on the track (once with her dad in a Cayman S so my car was a bit different for her).


:panic:





rotfl
 

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Looks to me like you went a little too much into the corner/rumble strips, which upset the balance and traction of the car. Glad it was nothing serious, though!
 

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I dont understand why drivers *have* to drive over the rumble strip. It is designed to make you crash, and damage your vehicle,... because your cheating.
 
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