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Discussion Starter #1
I havent done much homework on the Toyota tranny and Diff.

Anyone know how stout ( or not) they are? What are the limits hp and torque wise? I guess I could run over to the Celica forums and look for owner who have run nitrous or turbo or supercharger on their cars but thought maybe some of you were familiar.

Any ideas?
 

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From what I have read on the Celica boards, about 260 whp things start breaking. Of course full slicks could lower that and 8500 starts on full slicks could be a problem at lower whp numbers. That would be about a 60% power increase, I guess.

I don't remember if it is tranny gears or diffs breaking. I seem to remember someone losing 3 gear. An LSD may reduce axle breakage if that is the problem. I believe some aftermarket strengthen parts are available, if search hard enough. However, the Celica does not appear to be real popular on the drag scence. Which means no development on transmissions/diffs that stand up to 500-1000 whp.

Greg
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah, Im a little unclear on these things especially since Im pushing 400hp through stock miata parts without problems. If you asked on miata.net if transmissions hold up to that sort of power you'd be told that they usually fail around 275.

I daily drive my car at 347rwhp for the past 3 years without fail and also have drag launched on MT/ET slicks on tracks sticky with VHT. I guess it depends on how you shift etc which is why it makes it such a gray area for me.

I did blow up one torsen LSD but I dont believe it would have happened if I had not experienced wheel hop. I replaced it with a KAAZ unit.
 

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Onefast,

We've had our 111R test car since Januray. All I can tell you is the clutch is the weak link on that car. We did several drag test runs at a local dragway when the car was bone stock. After a night of drags the clutch was hurting. I can just imagine what the clutch would look like after adding some serious power to this car.

Best Wishes,
Mitch
 

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hermanslotus said:
Onefast,

We've had our 111R test car since Januray. All I can tell you is the clutch is the weak link on that car. We did several drag test runs at a local dragway when the car was bone stock. After a night of drags the clutch was hurting. I can just imagine what the clutch would look like after adding some serious power to this car.

Best Wishes,
Mitch
And so how is all of that tuning going anyway.......?? The first Elises are almost here and I sure would love to see some performance options start poping up.........:cool:
 

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Mean TT said:
And so how is all of that tuning going anyway.......?? The first Elises are almost here and I sure would love to see some performance options start poping up.........:cool:
Mean,

We'll have a bunch of stuff out by the time the first cars hit the US. From what I hear thats end of June early July.

Best Wishes,
Mitch
 

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People have been destroying final drives, syncros, and occasioanlly shearing gears in various 2zz-ge transmissions. There are a few memebers with turbos on newcelica.org that have done those, and one that destroyed his final drive launching his non-turbo Celica GT-S from high revs with slicks, LSD, and solid motor mounts.
 

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OneFastMiata said:
Yeah, Im a little unclear on these things especially since Im pushing 400hp through stock miata parts without problems. If you asked on miata.net if transmissions hold up to that sort of power you'd be told that they usually fail around 275.

I daily drive my car at 347rwhp for the past 3 years without fail and also have drag launched on MT/ET slicks on tracks sticky with VHT. I guess it depends on how you shift etc which is why it makes it such a gray area for me.

I did blow up one torsen LSD but I dont believe it would have happened if I had not experienced wheel hop. I replaced it with a KAAZ unit.
This is not surprising as the Miata is a truly overbuilt car. As you have experienced, it can stand up to 3x stock HP with not so much as a whimper except for the rear end (which break even with stock motors).

The only other Japanese car in recent memory that can boast handling similar increases reliably is the Supra Turbo.

Hondas are notoriously bad at this. Try increasing a Honda motor's output 100% without totally re-engineering everything in the powertrain and you better have AAA. Even a 40% increase on an NSX results in (very) expensive bits liberating themselves. Personally, I don't consider this a weakness. In fact, I admire Honda for making powerplants that make a lot of power for their displacement and weight. They are carefully designed for their output level and will last close to forever with maintenance if power increases are kept to the 220% range.

Like many of you, I hope that Toyota left some margin on the table to handle some increase in power. It would be nice to get a nice boost from cams, intake, exhaust, etc without having to build a stronger bottom end or tranny / diff / shafts, etc.

Ara
 

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hermanslotus said:
Onefast,

We've had our 111R test car since Januray. All I can tell you is the clutch is the weak link on that car. We did several drag test runs at a local dragway when the car was bone stock. After a night of drags the clutch was hurting. I can just imagine what the clutch would look like after adding some serious power to this car.

Best Wishes,
Mitch
Mitch, I'm a little ??? about you business. Are you in NJ but affiliated with a company in Australia? I take it the 111R is in Australia and that is where all the products are being developed and shipped from. I live in the NY/NJ area and would like to know what type of business you will have here. Is it a store front, shipping warehouse, repair/install garage? Will your exhaust system be available by the time the cars arrive here in the states and my dealer ask if I want the stage 1 ?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ara said:
except for the rear end (which break even with stock motors).


Ara
Not to pick nits, but its only the 90-93 rear ends that blow up.

The 94+ cars are equipped with Torsen rear ends and are quite stout. I dont think I would have blown mine up except that I experienced wheel hop on the startline and was on very sticky VHT prep. When I did blow it up everyone insisted it was the ring and pinion that let go as noone had blown up a torsen before in a miata. I had to post pictures to confirm it was indeed the Torsen.
 

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1FASTMX5 said:
Mitch, I'm a little ??? about you business. Are you in NJ but affiliated with a company in Australia? I take it the 111R is in Australia and that is where all the products are being developed and shipped from. I live in the NY/NJ area and would like to know what type of business you will have here. Is it a store front, shipping warehouse, repair/install garage? Will your exhaust system be available by the time the cars arrive here in the states and my dealer ask if I want the stage 1 ?

Yes I am affiliated with the Australian company. The guy down there John is my partner. He as been working with Elise's since the very first day Lotus came out with them. He has also worked for Lotus Cars Australia from 1987 to 1999 ( the year he opened his own Lotus related Business). Yes the 111R is in our Melbourne shop and has been since the day we took delivery back in January. This was the only way possible we could have some parts developed before the US cars came out over here. It proved to be a wise move on our part. The 111R was purchased by our company and is owned by Race and Prestige. It is not some customers car.
My business is located in Piscataway, NJ and is a 5,000sq.ft warehouse. Eventually we will have a shop (at the same location) that does installations and tuning on the Elise.
We will have our intake kit, exhaust system, and front sway bar ready and available by the time the first customer cars arrive.
We will also have a limited slip diff. out by mid summer as well.

Best Wishes,
Mitch
 

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OneFastMiata said:
Not to pick nits, but its only the 90-93 rear ends that blow up.

The 94+ cars are equipped with Torsen rear ends and are quite stout. I dont think I would have blown mine up except that I experienced wheel hop on the startline and was on very sticky VHT prep. When I did blow it up everyone insisted it was the ring and pinion that let go as noone had blown up a torsen before in a miata. I had to post pictures to confirm it was indeed the Torsen.
The Torsens are more solid, no argument. But... I have a blown Torsen in the shop. The bearings got smoked. It was spectacular. We emptied the oil while it was still hot in the pits, it was BOILING. Never seen anything like it. The driver said it was howling so bad, she couldn't hear the engine. But agreed, it is not a common failure like the 1.6s.
 

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The stock 2ZZ 6sp tranny is reliable till about 250whp. Usually the final drive gear would be first to break off. Another weakness of the tranny is the bell housing, where it tends to crack and break when you approach 300whp.

This should not be a major problem because 250whp (80 more than stock) is way plenty for a 1900lb elise.

BTW, a BRAND new factory complete 6spd tranny is only $1600, which is CHEAP compared to cars like the NSX where a clutch replacement cost just as much.
 
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