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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I know there are build threads out there, just looking for some interesting conversation about an idea I've been tinkering with.

If you had an S260 Sport like I have and $20K for performance mod's (labor done myself), would it be possible to get 500 reliable HP for that amount?

If so, what engine build, transmission and forced induction route would you go with, and from whom?

4 lb/HP sounds seriously tantalizing to me... :drool:
 

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Ahh yes, deployment money :)
As for your question, I really don't know of money Loti with that much power. You could definitely get to 300 with half of that but I'm not sure what is available to push it up to 500.

Stay safe.
 

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You probably cannot hit a reliable 500 HP for that price range. But 450 crank HP is possible.
New, lower compression forged pistons. Ported and Polished Jim Clayton heads with high-revving valves and springs.
REV400 kit with a tune for a high octane build, smaller pulley.
E-153 transmission.
Uprated clutch.
if any money is left....
Headers with de-cat and st-5 exhaust.
 

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500hp at the crank AND reliable ? I'm quite sure no amount of money can make that happen on the 2ZZ.
A twin-charged Exige like Ronin's car maybe, but not only he's well over 20k in mods, his car is not the most reliable at all.

With a S260 in my garage, I would just get a proper ECU tune and buy a 2 lb / hp Ducati 1199 Panigale with the money left.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ahh yes, deployment money :)
As for your question, I really don't know of money Loti with that much power. You could definitely get to 300 with half of that but I'm not sure what is available to push it up to 500.

Stay safe.
Wise investment of previous deployment monies. ;)

The car is rated at 257 from factory. So far for about 5 grand with a TQ300+ tune and all the associated goodies to really make that tune shine, I'd imagine in the 310-340 HP range? But that's on a stock trans, which I know isn't very happy at those power levels.

You probably cannot hit a reliable 500 HP for that price range. But 450 crank HP is possible.
New, lower compression forged pistons. Ported and Polished Jim Clayton heads with high-revving valves and springs.
REV400 kit with a tune for a high octane build, smaller pulley.
E-153 transmission.
Uprated clutch.
if any money is left....
Headers with de-cat and st-5 exhaust.
Ya I though 500 might be pushing it. I've already got Lorini exhaust and de-cat, so a little savings there.

I guess a big thing would be the E153 as I understand some people don't like the gears in those things and it also being only 5-speed.

I guess the largest factor would be would that extra say ~120 HP of a full build be worth the extra 15K versus tuning the stock setup to max. I know an extra 120HP in a 2,000 lb car is quite a bit, just tossing some thoughts around.

I guess another consideration would be traction and whether at ~450hp would require tires wide enough to warrant rear quarter-panel wheel well work..
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
r ECU tune and buy a 2 lb / hp Ducati 1199 Panigale with the money left.
I've been down the super bike path. It was super fun, but almost killed myself a few times..-poke-

As I get older I realize having a fast car is more fitting than a fast bike.
 

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Wise investment of previous deployment monies. ;)

The car is rated at 257 from factory. So far for about 5 grand with a TQ300+ tune and all the associated goodies to really make that tune shine, I'd imagine in the 310-340 HP range? But that's on a stock trans, which I know isn't very happy at those power levels.
I've been at 330 crank, 281rwhp for 3 years on the stock block and transmission with no issues.

IMHO the more important question you have to answer is will 280-300rwhp satisfy you or do you need the extra 50rwhp?

You can do the 280-300rwhp on the MP62. A Rev 400 with built block will yield around 350rwhp. But it will also cost you nearly all (if not more) of your $20K.

Decisions, decisions.

San
 

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I've been down the super bike path. It was super fun, but almost killed myself a few times..-poke-

As I get older I realize having a fast car is more fitting than a fast bike.
I have a ZX-10R making 178rwhp. The thing is constantly trying to kill me.


San
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've been at 330 crank, 281rwhp for 3 years on the stock block and transmission with no issues.

IMHO the more important question you have to answer is will 280-300rwhp satisfy you or do you need the extra 50rwhp?

You can do the 280-300rwhp on the MP62. A Rev 400 with built block will yield around 350rwhp. But it will also cost you nearly all (if not more) of your $20K.

Decisions, decisions.

San
San, could you give me a quite run-down on how you got to 330 crank HP? With your trans, did you keep the clutch proportioning valve if yours came with one? I figure keeping that on mine would lessen the trans shock. Starting to think going the $20K+ route isn't worth the bang for the buck if we are talking 400 or less crank HP.


I have a ZX-10R making 178rwhp. The thing is constantly trying to kill me.


San
Oh I hear you. I also had the Autobahn as a playground, being able to go 180+ MPH sustained legally on a bike was crazy..
 

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San, could you give me a quite run-down on how you got to 330 crank HP? With your trans, did you keep the clutch proportioning valve if yours came with one? I figure keeping that on mine would lessen the trans shock. Starting to think going the $20K+ route isn't worth the bang for the buck if we are talking 400 or less crank HP.
I'll play the devil's advocate here. I installed my RLS intercooler, heat shield, and 3 chamber IC shroud/hoses/side scoops and did a dyno pull. I saw 226rwhp. 3 pulls and the lines were on top of each other. Great IC. Seemed high for a supposedly nearly stock car so maybe the previous owner had an ECU tune.

Had Sector 111 install the Blade 300 kit. Subsequent dyno pull (nearly identical conditions) showed 281rwhp for an increase of 55rwhp. It was a night and day difference.

Here's the problem. I know adding another 50-70rwhp would be even more satisfying than where I'm at now, but it's going to cost me $20K or more. I'd also have to deal with emissions and I'm in Cali.

I think that with a header, the new tunes from BOE and possibly a front-mount air-water IC I can get to 320rwhp on the MP62 for a lot less money. Now we're only talking ~30rwhp difference. I can also sell my RLS IC/heat/shield and offset the expenditures.

Honestly, I think for a street car I have plenty of horsepower now with all my toys, but I'm never happy with enough. I want too much. But I haven't decided the MP62 can't fulfill my needs at this point.

I'm pretty sure my car either had the clutch proportioning valve or it was added because my mechanic, Allen at VSA Motorsports, is a proponent of it.

One other thing I'll add is that I've done a lot of weight reduction as I feel that's a good way to try to take away some of the burden from the transmission. The one thing I'm not willing to give up at this point is the AC. Allen told me how much weight I could save and I wish I didn't know.

I also think the transmission "issue" is due more to how the car is driven. I had the original 2002 bug-eye Subaru WRX with the "glass" transmission. I had it to 300awhp and tracked it and I never had any issues.

Many here have had good results on the stock transmission with over 300 crank horsepower. My mechanic thinks I should leave well-enough alone at my current power level as he fears I'll break the transmission. Advice is easy to give but hard to take.

If you want to discuss this further PM me and I'll give you my number.

San
 

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What is the intent here? Do you just want a car with high hp? Track use?

I do know a gal down in Florida who went turbo for around 450whp. Not sure how much she spent, but she did spend months without a working car because her shop screwed up numerous times. I wish I could have asked more details (transmission, engine build, etc.)

Not as worried since you'd be working on it yourself... I think somehow strengthening the gearbox then doing a k swap + turbo should do it. Possible for 20k if without labor in my opinion. If you haven't , I'd look into doing a REV300+ upgrade. I have the KF270 and it's still a blast on the road. If you're going for overkill, then I seriously think Kswap would be better.

I need to go on a deployment soon... Probably in the next few years the way ISIS is operating.
 

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I'll throw another opinion out here... the 09 S260 Sport is pretty much the most desirable road car to have from the factory. Anything you do to it is going to hurt the value. If you want to start toying around with big mods, it makes way more sense to sell it and get a cheaper lotus to start doing these kind of mods to. You'll turn $20k into $40k or more for mods, and then you can do whatever you want and do it properly (for a whole lot less money)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'll play the devil's advocate here. I installed my RLS intercooler, heat shield, and 3 chamber IC shroud/hoses/side scoops and did a dyno pull. I saw 226rwhp. 3 pulls and the lines were on top of each other. Great IC. Seemed high for a supposedly nearly stock car so maybe the previous owner had an ECU tune.

Had Sector 111 install the Blade 300 kit. Subsequent dyno pull (nearly identical conditions) showed 281rwhp for an increase of 55rwhp. It was a night and day difference.

Here's the problem. I know adding another 50-70rwhp would be even more satisfying than where I'm at now, but it's going to cost me $20K or more. I'd also have to deal with emissions and I'm in Cali.

I think that with a header, the new tunes from BOE and possibly a front-mount air-water IC I can get to 320rwhp on the MP62 for a lot less money. Now we're only talking ~30rwhp difference. I can also sell my RLS IC/heat/shield and offset the expenditures.

Honestly, I think for a street car I have plenty of horsepower now with all my toys, but I'm never happy with enough. I want too much. But I haven't decided the MP62 can't fulfill my needs at this point.

I'm pretty sure my car either had the clutch proportioning valve or it was added because my mechanic, Allen at VSA Motorsports, is a proponent of it.

One other thing I'll add is that I've done a lot of weight reduction as I feel that's a good way to try to take away some of the burden from the transmission. The one thing I'm not willing to give up at this point is the AC. Allen told me how much weight I could save and I wish I didn't know.

I also think the transmission "issue" is due more to how the car is driven. I had the original 2002 bug-eye Subaru WRX with the "glass" transmission. I had it to 300awhp and tracked it and I never had any issues.

Many here have had good results on the stock transmission with over 300 crank horsepower. My mechanic thinks I should leave well-enough alone at my current power level as he fears I'll break the transmission. Advice is easy to give but hard to take.

If you want to discuss this further PM me and I'll give you my number.

San
Cool ya, thanks for the info. I also think now maxing out the 2ZZ, stock trans and M62 may be the best option.

I guess one concern would be the valve float on this engine. Plus the trans power handling, those seem to be the two most common deal breakers.

So you think with those "simple" mods listed you could get 320rwhp?

As for AC, I am totally with you. Even if it stripped 500 lb's, I still wouldn't do it. Being hot totally ruins the driving experience IMO.


Right now these are the parts I am looking into for my build:

Lorini single side exhaust with de-cat (already have): $0
BOE TOC Oil pan (already have): $0
BOE 525cc injector Kit: $250
BOE - ITG 3" Cold air intake: $400
BOE Torque300+ Tune: $850
BOE Surge Tank $800
3.0" or 2.9" M62 Pulley: $100
RLS Intercooler Thermal Isolators: $55
Really Light Stuff Intercooler: $1200
RLS Intercooler Heat Shield: $135
Stainless Hose Clamps: $100
RLS Carbon Intercooler Shroud (3 input): $525
RLS Supplemental Ducting: $100
RLS Intercooler side scoops: $335
DMC 2ZZ Header: $1880

Total: $6730

I think that is about as good as I can get a stock 2ZZ eh? Any idea on what power the above could produce?
 

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Cool ya, thanks for the info. I also think now maxing out the 2ZZ, stock trans and M62 may be the best option.

I guess one concern would be the valve float on this engine. Plus the trans power handling, those seem to be the two most common deal breakers.

So you think with those "simple" mods listed you could get 320rwhp?

As for AC, I am totally with you. Even if it stripped 500 lb's, I still wouldn't do it. Being hot totally ruins the driving experience IMO.


Right now these are the parts I am looking into for my build:

Lorini single side exhaust with de-cat (already have): $0
BOE TOC Oil pan (already have): $0
BOE 525cc injector Kit: $250
BOE - ITG 3" Cold air intake: $400
BOE Torque300+ Tune: $850
BOE Surge Tank $800
3.0" or 2.9" M62 Pulley: $100
RLS Intercooler Thermal Isolators: $55
Really Light Stuff Intercooler: $1200
RLS Intercooler Heat Shield: $135
Stainless Hose Clamps: $100
RLS Carbon Intercooler Shroud (3 input): $525
RLS Supplemental Ducting: $100
RLS Intercooler side scoops: $335
DMC 2ZZ Header: $1880

Total: $6730

I think that is about as good as I can get a stock 2ZZ eh? Any idea on what power the above could produce?
I think Phil uses larger injectors. I also know for high-horsepower builds he uses a front-mount air-water IC setup. Since he'd be building the tune I'd go to him for advice on particular parts. I know on Jack's 211 they got 320rwhp (MP62) but that was with Piper Stage 3 cams and head work. I think Darksol is still on the stock transmission and he's pushing quite a bit of horsepower.

San
 

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If it were me as noted before I would sell the 260 for something less money then swap in a Evora S motor (possibly turbo'd instead) and lengthen the chassis and body as necessary= US legal v6 Exige
 

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If it were me as noted before I would sell the 260 for something less money then swap in a Evora S motor (possibly turbo'd instead) and lengthen the chassis and body as necessary= US legal v6 Exige
That would make sense if the Evora S motor made the horsepower the OP was looking for. It wouldn't be US legal as even just changing the cat location renders it illegal.

San
 

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One problem with having the fastest Elise around, is that someone with a 800HP cameo will smoke you. Or someone will have a faster Elise, or it is will break, or the police will grow to like you.

What are the goals? If it is trackwork, then got 20k you could get a lot of driving instruction and an open wheeler like a formula ford.

Or a nice yurt and small parcel of land, which will not break as readily.

The whole HP chasing is a slippery slope where it is difficult to ever "have enough". If it is possible to like it as it is, then using the $ for instruction or track day entries may bring more joy per dollar, or smiles/$.
 

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I can tell you how I plan on doing it, but it doesn't involve the 2ZZ. The Audi 2.0T block with a DSG and a turbo. You can do it with the 1.8, but the newer 2.0 can be paired with the DSG, which is a sweet tranny. And it fits. Very reputable local shop is well known in the Audi/VW community for turning out ultra high HP cars that consistently win time attack/tuner competitions. At some point if/when my Toyota engine goes, I'm not fixing it. It's coming out and the Audi motor is going in.
 

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I can tell you how I plan on doing it, but it doesn't involve the 2ZZ. The Audi 2.0T block with a DSG and a turbo. You can do it with the 1.8, but the newer 2.0 can be paired with the DSG, which is a sweet tranny. And it fits. Very reputable local shop is well known in the Audi/VW community for turning out ultra high HP cars that consistently win time attack/tuner competitions. At some point if/when my Toyota engine goes, I'm not fixing it. It's coming out and the Audi motor is going in.
Track only? If not how in the world is it going to pass emissions?

San
 
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