The Lotus Cars Community banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm curious to know exactly what it says in the title. Are there any after-market improvements to wishbones? I've been googling and looking on this forum, but haven't seen anything about it.

As far as I can tell the ones on Elises are steel, and they don't look particularly special so I inferred that a choice aluminum forging could improve the weight performance of the part, but it's also possible that it wouldn't make enough of a difference on such a small car (and I've never heard of someone breaking one in all the other posts I've read about various suspension maladies).

If some wise old hand reads this and thinks, "no, and they're unnecessary which is why there aren't any," I'd love to hear why. It'd be interesting to learn what does and does not matter for this type of part. An all-forged aluminum suspension is something I've heard about some sports cars having...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,815 Posts
One would not forge parts in single digit quantities unless for the space shuttle

The stock wishbones weigh next to nothing
About 2 pounds,[upper] and half of that is sprung

The bearing/hub assembly weighs 6 pounds by itself

Steel is stiffer than aluminum, so true weight savings would be vanishingly small

That is why there aren't any available
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,523 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: ucalegone and xepha

·
Premium Member
2006 Exige
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
I'm curious to know exactly what it says in the title. Are there any after-market improvements to wishbones? I've been googling and looking on this forum, but haven't seen anything about it.

As far as I can tell the ones on Elises are steel, and they don't look particularly special so I inferred that a choice aluminum forging could improve the weight performance of the part, but it's also possible that it wouldn't make enough of a difference on such a small car (and I've never heard of someone breaking one in all the other posts I've read about various suspension maladies).

If some wise old hand reads this and thinks, "no, and they're unnecessary which is why there aren't any," I'd love to hear why. It'd be interesting to learn what does and does not matter for this type of part. An all-forged aluminum suspension is something I've heard about some sports cars having...
Elise parts control arms are made from a stronger steel which allows them to be made from thinner tubing. The rear lower arm is 3# lighter than stock and a much better design.As you can see in the pic
It’s a much better toe link setup,everything is in double shear.No brackets braces or long weak bolts.
It also allows easy bump steer adjustment.
The front arms are very light. A forging would probably be heavier but much cheaper in high volume production.
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Hood Automotive design Bumper
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive wheel system Gas Bumper
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,227 Posts
Elise parts control arms are made from a stronger steel which allows them to be made from thinner tubing. The rear lower arm is 3# lighter than stock and a much better design.As you can see in the pic
It’s a much better toe link setup,everything is in double shear.No brackets braces or long weak bolts.
It also allows easy bump steer adjustment.
The front arms are very light. A forging would probably be heavier but much cheaper in high volume production. View attachment 1310902 View attachment 1310903
That is a good looking setup you’ve got there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Assuming that these photos are an installation of this setup from eliseparts? How's your experience been with them? Is this setup streetable, or are the vibes from the road a bit too much?
Elise parts control arms are made from a stronger steel which allows them to be made from thinner tubing. The rear lower arm is 3# lighter than stock and a much better design.As you can see in the pic
It’s a much better toe link setup,everything is in double shear.No brackets braces or long weak bolts.
It also allows easy bump steer adjustment.
The front arms are very light. A forging would probably be heavier but much cheaper in high volume production. View attachment 1310902 View attachment 1310903
 

·
Registered
No lotus yet, but cant wait to get one
Joined
·
157 Posts

·
Addict
2007 Lotus Exige S
Joined
·
1,707 Posts
No kidding. Curious now whether these are compatible with the BOE toe-links people often install...
Depends on what you mean by compatible. Could you force them to work together, maybe. This is a different toe-link setup and I don't see a need to use the BOE setup with these control arms as it has it's own setup. You'd need to use a new bolt to hold the control arm to the subframe if you drilled that larger to fit the BOE full toe-links.
 

·
Premium Member
2006 Exige
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
No kidding. Curious now whether these are compatible with the BOE toe-links people often install...
I showed the rear control arm and toe link assembly to demonstrate a stronger way of doing things.It would make no sense to even contemplate another system when using these arms.As to ride quality that’s to subjective for me to comment on.
For those concerned about weight ,each of those uprights are about 2# lighter than stock.For me I was after a 40mm drop in ride ht.This requires very high spring rates to keep tires off the liners. I can’t go over a speed bump and it’s a terrible ride on a bumpy road due to spring rate. I love it my wife hates it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I showed the rear control arm and toe link assembly to demonstrate a stronger way of doing things.It would make no sense to even contemplate another system when using these arms.As to ride quality that’s to subjective for me to comment on.
For those concerned about weight ,each of those uprights are about 2# lighter than stock.For me I was after a 40mm drop in ride ht.This requires very high spring rates to keep tires off the liners. I can’t go over a speed bump and it’s a terrible ride on a bumpy road due to spring rate. I love it my wife hates it.
I can actually see why other links don't make as much sense now that I look at it. Sounds like your setup is not terribly streetable from my perspective (I am pretty indulgent toward ill-mannered cars, but if it can't do speed bumps or get me to and from a nice restaurant on a Friday night when the weather is good that's over the line for me). I bet it's a gas on track, though.

Unfortunately you're right. there's too much confounding stuff different from stock in your setup for me to say. I sent elise-parts an email essentially putting the same question to them; I've heard lots of people (with hardcore track elises) say that in general putting spherical bearings on a road car is a Bad Idea^{TM}, and I'm inclined to believe them. Fred Zust once pointed out to me that unless you have lots of power and big slick tires (not 200tw streetable tires, mind, but like Hoosiers) the rubber bushings don't deflect enough for it to actually change the geometry of the suspension in our truly light cars, unless they're shot. In which case they should be replaced with other rubber bushings. Perhaps the T45s could be bushed with something a bit more damp...or maybe the rumors of spherical bushes being completely intolerable on a midwestern freeway are overexaggerated.
 

·
Premium Member
2006 Exige
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
I can actually see why other links don't make as much sense now that I look at it. Sounds like your setup is not terribly streetable from my perspective (I am pretty indulgent toward ill-mannered cars, but if it can't do speed bumps or get me to and from a nice restaurant on a Friday night when the weather is good that's over the line for me). I bet it's a gas on track, though.

Unfortunately you're right. there's too much confounding stuff different from stock in your setup for me to say. I sent elise-parts an email essentially putting the same question to them; I've heard lots of people (with hardcore track elises) say that in general putting spherical bearings on a road car is a Bad Idea^{TM}, and I'm inclined to believe them. Fred Zust once pointed out to me that unless you have lots of power and big slick tires (not 200tw streetable tires, mind, but like Hoosiers) the rubber bushings don't deflect enough for it to actually change the geometry of the suspension in our truly light cars, unless they're shot. In which case they should be replaced with other rubber bushings. Perhaps the T45s could be bushed with something a bit more damp...or maybe the rumors of spherical bushes being completely intolerable on a midwestern freeway are overexaggerated.
I was trying to explain that my ride height of 95mm rules out speed bumps.My high spring rate 800# is required to keep the tires off the fender liners.A stiff sway bar also contributes to a rough ride.The spherical bearings are a minor detail in ride quality.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,523 Posts
I can actually see why other links don't make as much sense now that I look at it. Sounds like your setup is not terribly streetable from my perspective (I am pretty indulgent toward ill-mannered cars, but if it can't do speed bumps or get me to and from a nice restaurant on a Friday night when the weather is good that's over the line for me). I bet it's a gas on track, though.

Unfortunately you're right. there's too much confounding stuff different from stock in your setup for me to say. I sent elise-parts an email essentially putting the same question to them; I've heard lots of people (with hardcore track elises) say that in general putting spherical bearings on a road car is a Bad Idea^{TM}, and I'm inclined to believe them. Fred Zust once pointed out to me that unless you have lots of power and big slick tires (not 200tw streetable tires, mind, but like Hoosiers) the rubber bushings don't deflect enough for it to actually change the geometry of the suspension in our truly light cars, unless they're shot. In which case they should be replaced with other rubber bushings. Perhaps the T45s could be bushed with something a bit more damp...or maybe the rumors of spherical bushes being completely intolerable on a midwestern freeway are overexaggerated.
Use self lube bushing like the ones from BWR and you'll get the best of both worlds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: elisefan888

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I was trying to explain that my ride height of 95mm rules out speed bumps.My high spring rate 800# is required to keep the tires off the fender liners.A stiff sway bar also contributes to a rough ride.The spherical bearings are a minor detail in ride quality.
Yep totally makes sense. I was agreeing with you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Use self lube bushing like the ones from BWR and you'll get the best of both worlds.
BWR kinda steered me away from that, but I'm into it. The car's already vibey and ill mannered by almost any standard, so a bit better feel for a bit more vibes seems acceptable to me.

The real question, then, is can one get the ertacetal bushings for the T45 wishbone set. I haven't heard back from Ian about that yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Looks like that's a No from eliese parts. But they also claimed that the spherical bearings are tolerable in a road car. Not sure I get that, as I've heard exactly the opposite from other people. Wish I could just try them out without having to commit to putting them on the car.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
13,523 Posts
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Bottom line from Catsailr27's link: it appears that the primary issue with sphericals is not NVH on our cars (because it's terrible anyway, essentially, so it's not obvious that they're even making things worse to most people who've fitted them) but rather their lack of durability on rough surfaces. Given this, and given my modding aspirations which are Road & Track oriented (that is to say, not purely track oriented), it'd be a lot better to have ertacetal bushes for my car but they don't sell that with the T45 kit. I suppose if I really want to go ham I can get that kit, drive them, and just expect to have to rebush: then when I do finally have to do that, rebushing with a more preferable material.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top