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Discussion Starter #1
Obviously, the cars are in two totally different universes in terms of performance, materials, cost, etc.

But, they do share a certain purity of purpose, a certain analog refuting of an increasingly computerized automotive landscape. Both were designed to be supreme driver's cars. Both were designed to be as light as possible. Both were designed to respond to inputs immediately and proportionately.

I have always thought the F1 was the 2nd most beautiful car ever penned by the hand of man (after the exquisite Ferrari 330 P4), and that it's humanity's greatest achievement in automobilia. I guess the rest of the world feels the same way, given current selling prices.

I recently watched a documentary on the F1, and there was something about the way the engine gives that little burst after a gear change, when the clutch is released, like it can't wait for the throttle to be opened...it just wants to go.

It reminded me of our cars.
 

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From an interview in fall 2016 - https://www.driving.co.uk/news/interview/mamm/motor-gordon-murray-design-legend-type-car/

Gordon Murray's "keepers" are (7 cars listed, 3 are Lotus - mike drop!):


His everyday car is a Smart roadster, but he has an eclectic collection of cars and motorbikes, ranging from the McLaren F1 to a 1966 Ford Cortina and a 1975 Triumph Spitfire. “I have a rule,” he says. “If I don’t use one in 12 months, I sell it.”
Gordon Murray: My life in cars

1964 Hillman Minx (used)
1970 Lotus Elan (used)
1991 Honda NSX
1992 McLaren F1
2003 Smart roadster (daily driver)
2016 Lotus Eleven racing car (1950s classic)
My dream car 2009 Lotus Elise


Cheers,
Kiyoshi
 

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No. The Europa is. The Elise is a bloated, tubby porkpie next to an Europa.
 

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The McLaren is the rich man’s Lotus.

And yes 4380R, we have both had Europa next to Elise in our garages. The Elise a real heavyweight in comparison.
 

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Probably, but in high school I loved Fiero's and that was basically a poor man's Lotus. Maybe I'm just a poor man. Besides, there's rich people out there like Elon Musk that buy Mclarens and then total them. He even tells the story himself. The last words the poor car heard were "watch this".
 

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Probably, but in high school I loved Fiero's and that was basically a poor man's Lotus. Maybe I'm just a poor man. Besides, there's rich people out there like Elon Musk that buy Mclarens and then total them. He even tells the story himself. The last words the poor car heard were "watch this".
I had a Fiero...no, not a Lotus at any income level. Not even a soup kitchen Lotus.

A "poor man's 'back in the day' Lotus" might have been a Fiat X19 or an early gen Miata.
 

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I have figured that if Lotus had the money, the new Esprit would be something like an entry Mclaren.
 

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No, no it's not.

As you saw in the documentary, the F1 was developed by Gordon Murray with the instructions to build the best sports car the world has ever seen. He had carte blanche and basically no cost target restraint. What was created was an engineering masterpiece.

If you've seen the documentary at Lotus, the guys wanted a fun, return to basics sports car that Lotus built their legend on, and something akin to a 4 wheel motorcycle. With this, they were weight and size obsessed. This lead to it's innovative use of extrusions and adhesives but the construction is really very simple and straight forward.

While both cars share a goal of light weight, correct weight distribution and high performance, that's hardly an argument for kinship. Both were designed by engineers with a respect for Colin Chapman's engineering ethos but that's about where it ends.

Both are fantastic cars in their own right. I actually think it belittles the Elise's greatness to call it a poor man's anything.
 

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Obviously, the cars are in two totally different universes in terms of performance, materials, cost, etc.

But, they do share a certain purity of purpose, a certain analog refuting of an increasingly computerized automotive landscape. Both were designed to be supreme driver's cars. Both were designed to be as light as possible. Both were designed to respond to inputs immediately and proportionately.

I have always thought the F1 was the 2nd most beautiful car ever penned by the hand of man (after the exquisite Ferrari 330 P4), and that it's humanity's greatest achievement in automobilia. I guess the rest of the world feels the same way, given current selling prices.

I recently watched a documentary on the F1, and there was something about the way the engine gives that little burst after a gear change, when the clutch is released, like it can't wait for the throttle to be opened...it just wants to go.

It reminded me of our cars.
We are in agreement 100%, I've always thought the most perfect mix of compound curves make up the curvilinear lines on the P3.

I've also lusted after the F1 since it's inception, but not being a member of the lucky sperm club, or smart enough to start Paypal, or host my own talk show - I could therefore either own a house in California or an F1, but not both.

That's why I contend the Lotus Exige is the non 1% man's F1; especially the S260 due to the abundance of CF, cutting-edge engineering and construction (relative to other mass produced cars), and both share a roof-mounted air scoop.

Since I see more Lotus on the streets of LA relative to F1s, the only times being when Jay Leno takes his out or when Elon visits his rocket plant. Us Elige owners get to have much more chair time than most of the F1 owners. Maybe a set of Ti Focom tools in the boot will make me feel less deprived.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Us Elige owners get to have much more chair time than most of the F1 owners. Maybe a set of Ti Focom tools in the boot will make me feel less deprived.
Therein is the silver lining, I get nervous taking my Elise out, can't even imagine owning, maintaing and actually driving something as valuable and rare as an F1. I read this quote by an F1 owner recently and was quite impressed with the perspective:

"This car has been resprayed maybe two or three times over the years, cleaned back and re-sprayed because, of course, it often has a lot of pebble marks on the front. The car needs to be used, and that’s that. It’s a shame that not enough of them get used. People get all fussy about protecting values. We think that if you go that way, you’re in a bad position though. It’s such a shame that people try and tuck them away exclusively as investment assets. Newer cars normally go down in price. You buy a car, you drive it, and you sell it for less money typically, but the value has been in enjoying the car. Sure most collectors have had their cake and eaten it too in recent years, but when you’re collecting for investment over enjoyment, you’ve lost the plot."


Kind of reminded me to relax and not worry so much. If this guy can say that about a $15,000,000 car, I should be able to enjoy my little Lotus. And I also love those titanium tools...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I actually think it belittles the Elise's greatness to call it a poor man's anything.
Of course, pardon the expression. The Elise is phenomenal, and for anyone who truly loves driving, loves the experience of being the human soul in the machine, connected to it, it is a sublime experience every time that Engine Start button is pressed.
 

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I'm so glad I found this thread, I'm glad i'm not the only nut...
Like the OP, I feel there are some similarities and you may think I am completely delusional...

1. Styling: like most, I think the F1 is the most beautifully designed car of all time. To me it never gets old. I love the looks of the Elige as well. I feel the Elige is reminiscent of the F1 in the front/rear/and roof scoop (more so the exige). Similar proportions (although the F1 is slightly wider/ much longer)
F1: 168.8" L 71.7" W 44.9" H
Elige: 149″ L x 68″ W 45″ H
Shared similarities include Quad lights, squared off rear end, Single wiper, isolated turn signal indicators, and sloping nose.
*can you imagine if the designers of the Elige were able to pass the butterfly/gull-wing door concept.

2. Driving: No I have not driven an F1 (god i wish), so again I will share my delusional opinion. So after watching endless youtube content about the F1 I can't help but feel that the elige captures at least 1/3 of the experience. Yes the power difference is night and day, but when staying in 5k-8k rev range in the elise I get that F1 esque growl/aggression from the engine (not saying a 4 cyl. can compete with a 12 cyl.). Also consider the three spoke steering wheel, almost center of the car driving position, paper thin bucket seats, direct rifle bolt shifting (I have a B&M upgrade so that helps) and raw/nimbleness. I'm sure the Elige being 500 pounds fewer helps it compete in handling. Having 4-500 Hp in the Elise sure would lessen the gap...

Anyways, for me and considering both cars ethos, I feel like I'm driving a mini F1. (flame suit on)
 

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Apart from the great capabilities of the F1, I would just love to drive up, open the doors and have 2 sexy women jump in.

I am fascinated with that 3 seat layout.
 

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I, too, lust after a McLaren F1. It is my favorite car of all time.

I think of my Elises as being the next best thing, though. I love them so much.

That said, I would really like to see a Papaya Orange F1 LM parked in between them in my garage.

Ah, pipe dreams.
 

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This pretty much eliminated any lust I might have had for an F1:
The ownership is truly as ridiculous as their asking price these days.
 

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This pretty much eliminated any lust I might have had for an F1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsKDGdcb6BQ The ownership is truly as ridiculous as their asking price these days.
Bruce seems a bit confused here.

No, it was a street car first, not a race car.

Yes, tires age out, independent of tread, and especially on a car that fast.

No, fire extinguisher chemistry isn't the same across types or brands.
 

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No. The Europa is. The Elise is a bloated, tubby porkpie next to an Europa.
The Europa can be a handy car to have around when buying and Elise. For example - take girlfriend to buy an Elise (knowing an Europa will be parked next to it) -- then say "oh honey we will get the bigger practical car so you'll be happy".
 
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