The Lotus Cars Community banner

101 - 120 of 154 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
It's not going to last 10 years is another major point amigo!

The $25 million per year will bring about 2.5 billion to the Texas economy over 10 years.

He's not a racing geek or politician, just a smart financial guy looking for the best bang for the buck for the budget he was given. The tax revenue will more than pay for the $25 million fee.
This entire deal is simply a few Rednecks needing an ego boost and a shrine to go with it all. F1 is a niche of a niche in the US. Read what happened @ Indianapolis dude. ;)

Track should have stayed away from public funds.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
Bet you right now it will not make that 2012 race date amiga!

Red McCombs is behind this with his money and track record. I know Red personally, he was best man at my Uncle Angelo's wedding, and this WILL HAPPEN in 2012!
You plan on having any children? Because the Great State of Texas is about to fire all these educators because of lack of funds. :huh:

Perfectly fine if ol' McCombs wants to build a shrine to his legacy. This entire deal is his rice bowl. Instead of hitting up local and state governments he should simply write a few more checks.

Boom. Done!



:up:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
Smart fellow from a Porsche board wrote this muchachos!

The Great State of Texas paying Ecclestone $25.000,000 / year for the "privilage'. Not to mention Travis County taxpayers on the hook for roads, sewage, water, etc. :rolleyes:

"Corporate welfare almost never works because it is based on flawed and biased justification. As a former elected public official (village board) I agreed with helping out new ventures for a few years at most when the public funding could make the difference between success and failure and there were quality of life issues, for example improving roads helped in bringing a new grocery store into an area that did not have one.
Sports arenas are a great example of the failure of optomistic projections to bear out the justification for tax breaks, added investment in roads, and investments. Most of these just foster redistribution of wealth (or theft) from the middle class to wealthy investors. Read "Public Funding of Sports Arenas" by the University of Utah for detailed support.

As much as I want F1 in the US, building a new track is a waste of public money. If a few wealthy people want to fund this then fine. I just see this as the people of Texas being fooled again."

Here's the linky.

http://www.cppa.utah.edu/publications/finance_tax/Sports_Stadiums.pdf




:huh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
Who told you the track was being built with public money? It's private money.

The public money pays the F1 sanction fee to bring the F1 business into the Texas economy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
F1 does not make sense as a business investment however McCombs has stated that his interest is in boosting Texas and Austin's International reputation. If you had made billions that you could not possibly spend and had already donated $50 million to the University of Texas, why not put a couple hundred mill in F1?
he's more than welcome to invest a couple mill in my bank account ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,224 Posts
Who told you the track was being built with public money? It's private money.

The public money pays the F1 sanction fee to bring the F1 business into the Texas economy.
For one, Texas Senator Dan Patrick. I have to agree with him. If anyone thinks that these types of investments occur because the investors just "really want to help out the community", they need to have their head examined. Look at any football, baseball, or other stadium that receives substantial government investment from public funds. F1 is must worse since it is such a niche sport. I'm all for another track close to my house, but it's the public that ultimately pays for the next feather in the billionaire's hat.

Texas Senator: Our State cannot afford F1 ? Formula 1 Austin News @ Autodrenaline.com
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
Bingo bango muchacho!

For one, Texas Senator Dan Patrick. I have to agree with him. If anyone thinks that these types of investments occur because the investors just "really want to help out the community", they need to have their head examined. Look at any football, baseball, or other stadium that receives substantial government investment from public funds. F1 is must worse since it is such a niche sport. I'm all for another track close to my house, but it's the public that ultimately pays for the next feather in the billionaire's hat.

Texas Senator: Our State cannot afford F1 ? Formula 1 Austin News @ Autodrenaline.com
Would love an F1 race in Texas... just not by these clowns. Deal started stinking from it's inception. Pretty sad really. These Rednecks would have been better served starting out with street race just to test the waters. :rolleyes:

After the first year the USGP @Indianapolis dropped in attendance like a rock. F1 IS a niche of a niche, compounded by the fact that it's run by an Evil Lil' Troll.

Austin beware.



:shift:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,886 Posts
Would love an F1 race in Texas... just not by these clowns. Deal started stinking from it's inception. Pretty sad really. These Rednecks would have been better served starting out with street race just to test the waters. :rolleyes:

After the first year the USGP @Indianapolis dropped in attendance like a rock. F1 IS a niche of a niche, compounded by the fact that it's run by an Evil Lil' Troll.

Austin beware.
:shift:
Yeah, really. Noone cares about F1 here. Not even a little bit. And, the ones who do try to follow the sport, like me are completely turned off by the UN-competitiveness of it and complete domination of a few teams. Its stoopid and pointless. Its like setting up a footbal league where the '85 Bears get to play against disabled 12 year old girls and they keep winning 126-0. Real exciting. :rolleyes: I know there are some good battles for position on the track here and there and you might even get a *true* race for the checkered flag once in a while, but 90% of the time it goes like this:

Vettel drives by..... :30 seconds pass.... either a McLaren or Weber drives by..... 1:30 passes.... some other car drives by...... Ferrari drives by..... 7 minutes pass...... other cars that are 15 laps down drive by. rotfl

Also, there arent any real personalities or interesting drivers for the fans to root for. Just a bunch of slick-haired, Euro-playboys that are way too cool for most people. I dunno - thats the impression I get. They are also sort of boring and stiff. This is the same problem that the NHL has - not enough indentifiable stars. Back when CART and other Open wheel racing was somewhat popular here in the USA, you had guys like Bobby Rahal, Danny Sullivan, The Foyts, The Unsers, Andretti, etc, etc. Guys you could root for or against. F1 has no such guys. Hell - the driver doesnt meana damned thing anyways. The cars are like slot cars with handling magnets front and rear(for those that remember or still play with slot cars you know what I mean :) )

But yeah, bring an F1 race to Texas.... that'll be the shortest lived thing ever. And, that local community will get stcuk with the bill for the next 40 years. :shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
1. If the Texas doesn't make more than $25 million in tax revenue, the state doesn't pay the $25 million. There is no risk to the state.

2. Sen. Patrick had no problem when his district (Houston) received $85 million from the fund but complains when Austin who has never tapped the fund stands to get some.

3. The track is amazing, is progressing at a high rate of speed and everything about it is being done first class. For examples, the whole track has already been excavated down 10 feet, the bottom lined in plastic and then filled back up with an imported sandy lome type material that doesn't shift. I plan on purchasing a suite as soon as they go on sale.

4. The boom to the Texas economy from this track is staggering and in the billions and the state basically makes a $25 million loan because once again, the money gets paid back many times in tax revenue.

When Austin was announced, there were posts on Lotus Talk that they would never get the money and then posts that they would never build the track. :panic:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
Let McCombs write another $25,00,000 check to Bernie. Leave the taxpayer OUT of this completely.
But that's how an economic development fund works. You use public funds to bribe outside business to lure them to your country or state.

For example, if you are a country that needs more hi-tech jobs to so that your university graduates don't go unemployed, you might offer to pay 30% of the salaries of the workers if a company agrees to build its new HQ in your city, give them tax breaks on the property taxes, and so on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
Here is some construction pics. The track covers about 500 acres of a little over 1000 acres purchased. The cars in the parking lot give an idea of how many workers there are on the job. The construction company doing the buildings is currently running underground electricity, water et al and says the actual building construction will go quickly. The second link is drawing of what the track and buildings will look like when completed.:coolnana:

Circuit of The Americas's Photos - Aerial Photos 5.27.11 | Facebook

Friends of Circuit of the Americas's Photos - COTA Video Snapshots May 31, 2011 | Facebook
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
417 Posts
2012 calendar

The 2012 FIA Formula One World Championship calendar is confirmed as follows:



11/03 BHR Bahrain
18/03 AUS Australia
01/04 MYS Malaysia
08/04 CHN China
22/04 KOR Korea
06/05 TUR Turkey *
20/05 ESP Spain
27/05 MCO Monaco
10/06 CAN Canada
17/06 USA United States :clap:
01/07 ESP Valencia, Spain
15/07 GBR Great Britain
29/07 DEU Germany
05/08 HUN Hungary
02/09 BEL Belgium
09/09 ITA Italy
30/09 SGP Singapore
14/10 JPN Japan
28/10 IND India
11/11 ARE Abu Dhabi
25/11 BRA Brazil

World Motor Sport Council
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
Discussion Starter #114
Surprised Austin was able to get on the FIA's calendar for 2012, thought 2013 is more likely but guess the developer is making more progress than I thought they would.

As for the debate on stadium venue developments, there simply is no debate - public money used to build any large-scale sporting venue is always a lose-lose situation for the taxpayers, and every case study (least in the US) has proven that. Construction and other short-term jobs will increase to develop the venue, but over the long run the bonds issued by the local government to help pay for this cost are not even remotely offset by the revenue generated by the sporting venues (almost always no revenue split between private owners and the public, the public only gets the taxes from that income). Even worse the length of these bonds are typically much longer than what most sporting franchises are willing to commit to a city for. F1 is worse than pro sport franchises because Bernie chooses his locations with a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality and only does short-term contracts with each track. At least with a NBA or NFL team, they'll commit to a city for nearly a decade or more.

Ultimately, I love the fact that F1 is coming to a new track in the Western US, but I do feel sorry for both the city of Austin and the state of Texas taxpayers, depending on how much public money is needed to finance this track.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
Well thanks for all that hombre!

But that's how an economic development fund works. You use public funds to bribe outside business to lure them to your country or state.

For example, if you are a country that needs more hi-tech jobs to so that your university graduates don't go unemployed, you might offer to pay 30% of the salaries of the workers if a company agrees to build its new HQ in your city, give them tax breaks on the property taxes, and so on.
Your example is for a "business". Race tracks typically can't be constued as such.


:D
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
Big Push was due to this promoter's relationship with Bernie compadre!

Surprised Austin was able to get on the FIA's calendar for 2012, thought 2013 is more likely but guess the developer is making more progress than I thought they would.

As for the debate on stadium venue developments, there simply is no debate - public money used to build any large-scale sporting venue is always a lose-lose situation for the taxpayers, and every case study (least in the US) has proven that. Construction and other short-term jobs will increase to develop the venue, but over the long run the bonds issued by the local government to help pay for this cost are not even remotely offset by the revenue generated by the sporting venues (almost always no revenue split between private owners and the public, the public only gets the taxes from that income). Even worse the length of these bonds are typically much longer than what most sporting franchises are willing to commit to a city for. F1 is worse than pro sport franchises because Bernie chooses his locations with a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately mentality and only does short-term contracts with each track. At least with a NBA or NFL team, they'll commit to a city for nearly a decade or more.

Ultimately, I love the fact that F1 is coming to a new track in the Western US, but I do feel sorry for both the city of Austin and the state of Texas taxpayers, depending on how much public money is needed to finance this track.
This fellow Suavo Hellmund believes he has an ironclad 10-year commitment from Ecclestone simply because lil' Bernie knew his old man way back when. The truth is Ecclestone will SCREW anyone if he so desires and has before. This is a risky venture. :eek:

Plus, F1 is a niche of a niche. Word on the street is that even General Admission tickets will be over $200 or more.

Austin, Texas is my hometown and a great track would be a very awesome addition to the ville. Unfortunately the parties involved with this project leave me rather cold. My gut tells me that the good folk of Travis County are going to get bent over on this one.

Race date in the middle of June? Reckon no one recalls that 1984 Dallas Grand Prix @ the beginning of July so many years ago. Austin is quite a bit more humid than Dallas... which should be really nice.






:shift:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,152 Posts
The first tax revenue from the race goes to pay off the $25 million each year. The anticipated tax revenue most likely will be considerably more and then you factor in the huge boost to the economy and the tax revenue that it generates. When next year this turns into a huge revenue generator, the local politicians will be standing in line taking credit and the naysayers who don't take the time to figure out how the fund is repayed will be crawling under a rock.

Since most people seem confused about the state fund providing the $25 million per year, here is how it works. The fund was set up to attract venues that otherwise would not have come to state. It has been used for many events from the Superbowl to the Final Four. The comptroller very conservatively estimates tax revenues from attracting these events and then basically INVESTS money in the event to bring the event to the state. The first tax revenue pays off the fund. So far the fund has a return on investment of 600 PERCENT in tax revenues received by the state. The event does not receive the money until it is definitely happening. Just one of many ways the local government gains from the track is the property taxes on the track and development around the track will create millions in property tax revenue that pays teachers. There is some exposure for the state fund in that if the the whole venue went under before the race and after they had paid the $25 million but remember the primary investor is Red McCombs who has written donations to the University of Texas for close to $100 million and he does not have a reputation for investing in losing propositions.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,896 Posts
101 - 120 of 154 Posts
Top