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2006 Lotus Elise
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
thinking of not selling my elise and just refinancing so i can keep it and actually do what i’ve always wanted to with it, ( turbo and/or k swap, widebody). Not to mention the elise going out of production and the prices being expected to rise in the next few years is a big motivator for keeping it.

Looking for links related to the known info on K swaps.
personally i’m interested in information such as transmission options, can you keep the toyota trans with an adapter or do you need a reversed honda trans?
And what kind of price offset does selling the toyota drive train have on the overall cost? (27k mile engine and trans)
Price differences between NA/SC/Turbo?
estimated price difference between not being afraid of custom fab work VS having everything done for you? Personally i can do wiring but any and all info on that is still welcome and appreciated. Etc.

Would greatly appreciate all known useful links related to K swaps because i know this stuff has been posted about, but not everyone can go back and find what they need. posting links here would make it more accessible for everyone with similar questions including myself.

Also it appears it would be cheaper to turbo the 2zz than SC the 2zz, and personally i’d prefer turbo over NA/SC anyway. Is that option a better idea than selling my 2zz to fund a K swap, considering the youth of my current drivetrain? i considered buying a used turbo kit from wire wheel a while ago for 2k (would rebuild/replace the turbo before running it) and always regretted not jumping on it once it sold to someone else.

I love this car so much (some sentimental attachment with my father and i, but also just the car itself is a dream.) and i have so much passion for this lightweight chassis feeling that i feel confident with following all the way through with the project.
 

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Forget Turbo. ForceFed did that years ago; I'm pretty sure there are no such kits available today. The kits to get would be Rev300 or Rev400 from BOE.
I considered a K-swap for about a minute. Besides all the ECU issues, tranny issues, and cost, what is there to lose? I'd say a lot. It destroys the integrity of what the car is. Now there are plenty of people who have done it but most are track cars to deal with heat soak. I can appreciate that which is my current problem but the Rev400 kit should help that.
 

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2006 Lotus Elise
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What are you looking for from the increased power? A shove? Linearity? Throttle response? Overall torque? Mid throttle torque? Sounds?
not too concerned with overall power but very interested in all of the above. Car is fast as is and has the best throttle response i’ve ever felt. but i want something unique, faster, and to do it myself to stay busy and to feel proud of. it’s also hard to find contentment with the stock powerband. Planned on buying a turbo Z when my elise sold but like i said i’m reconsidering
 

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2006 Lotus Elise
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Forget Turbo. ForceFed did that years ago; I'm pretty sure there are no such kits available today. The kits to get would be Rev300 or Rev400 from BOE.
I considered a K-swap for about a minute. Besides all the ECU issues, tranny issues, and cost, what is there to lose? I'd say a lot. It destroys the integrity of what the car is. Now there are plenty of people who have done it but most are track cars to deal with heat soak. I can appreciate that which is my current problem but the Rev400 kit should help that.
i’d probably go for a MWR turbo kit or a used forcefed kit. And there’s a lot to lose which is why we do research first before diving in. I would greatly appreciate the mod support for the K series and it certainly has its benefits
 

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Oil stain rapid delivery system
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Turbo* 2ZZ owner here.

With how phenomenal the handling and braking of my Lotus was, the Elise always felt just a little too slow compared to my other cars. It always left me wanting just a little more from the engine. To your question though, the sound of the 2ZZ is better than the K-series IMHO and that is actually important in a sports car. My turbo mutes this somewhat but it still sounds great compared to the Honda swaps.

From a power perspective something to keep in mind.... A good 2zz turbo build is going to make quite a bit more power than the transmission will handle. I suppose it depends on your goals but the 3rd gear in the C6X transmissions tends to let go. The MR2 guys snap axles even with the 1zz engine.

Now driving impressions. With a good turbo and A2W intercooler on the 2ZZ the first two gears are basically unusable without traction control. The 2ZZ has way more power than can be used around town. On the track the car becomes extremely competitive. I have been running 9 PSI for almost 3 years now on the stock bottom end (maybe around 15k miles). The reliability has been good. In fact for half that time I was running with no intercooling just Meth injection. Everyone will talk about the Kswap being more reliable for track days. It seems to me that if you keep the oil cool, don't suck air (get a good oil pan) and have a good tune the engine is far more reliable than the transaxle.

*Disclaimer - Everything on my build is one off. I have no BOE parts or otherwise. I am running a equal length custom manifold with a Celica OBX head flange, meth injection and a 7163 EFR turbo. I think the drivability of my build is much better than the off the shelf stuff. So keep that in mind. Your results may vary.
 
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I’m sure plenty of people had good results with their boosted 2ZZs, but I had a detonation failure (total rebuild on a brand new built motor) followed by a transmission failure (on an expensive full c64 gear set) followed by a broken clutch disc, then a broken rocker (Ferrea roller rockers) which ruined a head... within a year of selling it, I heard it was burning oil and spun a bearing. Sampling error? Maybe it’s just me? Bad break in? I don’t think enough people talk about their experiences (or that there are enough examples) to get a good idea about the true reliability. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Maybe it’s just me?
I don't think it's just you. High power 2ZZ's are hard to find. That being said there is proof they can make good power with stock components and be reliable. I have no idea how long the two examples that topped 500 HP lasted. My guess is not long. It's really about what goals OP has. I think under 350 HP can be quite reliable if you're not hitting the drag strip.
 
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05' Project Fennec
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What is your WHP goal? If your looking at doubling power to 300-350WHP FI on the 2zz will save you some cash. Want more than that go with a K swap. The power to weight ratio on a 350WHP Elise is actually fairly close to a F40 and is likely more than you can use on the street.
 

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2006 Exige K24A2 SC
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I will say reading your comment regarding building it yourself reminds me I'm a little ashamed having bought a car that had the swap. I've had the motor apart on my M3 a few years ago and built my Talon and CRX motors and had turbo Honda's before they were cool so I CAN do it, just too busy now with family. In reality there's lots left for me to do I'm just saying - I GET IT! I MISS IT! DO IT! Also I live in twisty road country and like wide power bands so I'm also over turbo's, even though in theory I prefer them.

Anyway, I didn't by this car for straight line, but I'll just leave this right here. I've been working through some pretty serious issues so whatever... this was originally for my analysis but thought maybe you'd enjoy it.
 

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If you aim to stay at around 320 whp , a turbo 2zz is quite doable and will last even with track days . In my experience pushing the HP beyond this you'll need to go the whole hog down to dry sump . My turbo stroked 2zz , E153 transmission with Kaaz gears was fantastic on the track at about 450whp... nothing could touch it ...Until the engine went pop due to oil starvation, melting bearings and crank. The car was pulling too much lateral g force along a long turn. I had the GPan3 . Having wrecked the block which I had got Nikasil coated , I've opted for sleeves this time , and dry sump. Stroker crank is too expensive to repeat. Also getting close to completing the widebody carbon fiber kit.

Sent from my LM-Q910 using Tapatalk
 

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not too concerned with overall power but very interested in all of the above. Car is fast as is and has the best throttle response i’ve ever felt. but i want something unique, faster, and to do it myself to stay busy and to feel proud of. it’s also hard to find contentment with the stock powerband. Planned on buying a turbo Z when my elise sold but like i said i’m reconsidering
I have literally done all of the above except the Kswap. Turbo just sucks on these cars. The small displacement motor does not lend itself to turbo. I could never get rid of the lag.

Kswap may be great but you lose all the OEM integration to the dash etc. etc.

TVS400 is plug and play, 11 sec 1/4 mile car. Fantastic power delivery and great integration. Don't over-think what people have figured out over the last 16 years.
 

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What is your WHP goal? If your looking at doubling power to 300-350WHP FI on the 2zz will save you some cash. Want more than that go with a K swap. The power to weight ratio on a 350WHP Elise is actually fairly close to a F40 and is likely more than you can use on the street.
350 hp at 8k rpm from a torque curve that tops out at what, 250 ft lbs is plenty usable on the street. Power:weight is great, but I would never compare the speed/acceleration/street manners to an f40 on that alone
 

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2zz is a decent motor, if you ignore cam-wiping issues. Otherwise, it's basically a nice paperweight.

Kseries don't have a known issue, like cam-wiping. There's no "check this before buying" in the Kseries world. Just make sure you get the right engine designation, it has good compression/leak down, and carry on.

Also, 1.8l vs. 2.0-2.4l. The larger displacement is always going to win, when aspiration is similar.

People have built and boosted 2zzs and make a whopping 300whp!!! HOW DO THEY EVEN CONTROL IT??! They control it by crying at the outrageous amounts of money they just spent to get there.

Whereas a built Kseries can make 300whp without boost. An internally stock kseries with a turbo can make 350whp all, day, long. A built and boosted kseries can make 500-800whp reliably -- upwards of 1300whp for a few passes.


For transmissions, you use a Kseries one. Add a LSD (or get one with a factory LSD), call it a day. If you're making under 400whp/350tq, the transmission will survive. Over that, you're on borrowed time. Good thing is, there are hardened gearsets (>$4000), sequential gearboxes (>$8000), and replacement stock transmissions for $1000 virtually everywhere.

Hondata has Kpro, which is one of the better piggyback options for ECUs, especially if you wish to smog, as it still retains the OBD2 port for diagnostics/smog. Kpro will also export to the Lotus dash, so you retain a lot of that functionality.

Otherwise, kswap is a very simple and straightforward swap. You can buy everything and have it swapped in over a weekend.


My recommendation: buy a K24A2, find a good intake manifold, VTC gear, baffled pan, RSX oil pump, hondata, and have a good tuner net you 230-250whp to the wheels and watch the S260s become smaller and smaller in your mirrors as you pass them in the straights.
 

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2011 Exige S260 Sport
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Not to mention the elise going out of production and the prices being expected to rise in the next few years is a big motivator for keeping it.
Once you start changing major stuff on your car you most likely will not see a return on that money. So if the financial value of your car is important to you, consider that. I get wanting to improve it and make it your own though, there is value in that - it's just measured differently. Good luck with your decision.
 
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