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Note: I have had excellent experiences with BOE & BWR. Quick responses too.

Love my Rev300.
 

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You will probably want more. I'm at around 300 whp, only had the car a short time and I feel like it could have come that way stock, but I'm coming from a low 11 sec car.
As Butters said it seems like most of the vendors for the lotus platform seem overworked and under payed. I too get the feeling when I've called a couple of them (to ask questions about how to spend my money) that they're annoyed by my outreach.

Being a business owner I can understand a bit, but when they're the only game in town, it's not like you can go down the street to the next vendor.
With Lotus, you have to remember that we are a very small market compared to other vehicles and even the companies that specialize in our cars often serve more than just our market segment. We already have a very healthy markup on parts because the number of potential sales to recoup R&D costs is extremely low, so the vendors have to balance their internal costs and profit margins against the markup that the market will bare. If they were staffed to handle every inquiry with real-time responses that extra overhead would force them to price many in our market "out of the market."

Then you have to remember that their resources aren't just spent on sales and service of existing parts but also filling existing orders, working with racing teams, doing post-sales support, serving other car markets, and doing R&D on new products.

I have always gotten a "good" response from the vendors I have worked with, but I generally send an e-mail with a very detailed question so that my questions can be answered efficiently with as little back and forth communication as possible. I consider a good response time to be a few days. If you go into your projects with this expectation you will have a much better experience. Plan ahead, allow plenty of lead time, and if you have a build planned for a specific time-frame shift your communications forward so you can also let the vendor know when you expect to need more expedient responses and find out how they can support your build with a dedicated support channel or resource.
 

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With Lotus, you have to remember that we are a very small market compared to other vehicles and even the companies that specialize in our cars often serve more than just our market segment. We already have a very healthy markup on parts because the number of potential sales to recoup R&D costs is extremely low, so the vendors have to balance their internal costs and profit margins against the markup that the market will bare. If they were staffed to handle every inquiry with real-time responses that extra overhead would force them to price many in our market "out of the market."

Then you have to remember that their resources aren't just spent on sales and service of existing parts but also filling existing orders, working with racing teams, doing post-sales support, serving other car markets, and doing R&D on new products.

I have always gotten a "good" response from the vendors I have worked with, but I generally send an e-mail with a very detailed question so that my questions can be answered efficiently with as little back and forth communication as possible. I consider a good response time to be a few days. If you go into your projects with this expectation you will have a much better experience. Plan ahead, allow plenty of lead time, and if you have a build planned for a specific time-frame shift your communications forward so you can also let the vendor know when you expect to need more expedient responses and find out how they can support your build with a dedicated support channel or resource.
That. Yes.

I would add that the level of expertise that a company like ours has is going to surpass the kids down at the local shop tweaking honda, subies, and so forth. It's evident based on the basket cases that show up here. We're interested, and more so now than ever, working on projects where the owner has the right budget and time to do it nice rather than twice. The right plumbing, electrical, cooling, chassis setup, aero, etc is all far more rewarding when done correctly. Folks that come over from juicing up their STI at the local kid's shop on the cheap and expect the same from a shop like ours won't get very far...

... and yes, we have R&D projects constantly going on.

On the honda swaps, ask butters and others who have done it. More chop-shop honda tuners out there that you can shake a stick at, but who actually does good work to the level of a shop like ours does. VERY - VERY VERY few.

As I've said before, if it's a specific question, it's probably been answered on this forum. If not, ask on the forum and it's nice to answer a 1,000 people rather one at time. That's the leverage that a small niche community needs to embrace. The veteran Lotus owners know this well!:up:

Honda swaps have their place for the right person. For every 1 that's done well, you can find 10 that are done poorly...and that probably about covers all 10 of them in the states.lol

- Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Project has begun, well sorta. I ordered motor mounts throttle body adapter and tranny adapter. Just to get it rolling. It will be after November before I start yanking motor etc.
Plan:
K20 stock motor for now to kinks are worked out.
stock 06 civic SI tranny
custom manifold
twin 38mm wastegates
Precision 5858
Air to Air (if this does not work well Ill go air water)
Vband everything
Haltech 1500 elite ECU
AIM MXS Strada or data logger dash
Flex fuel
ID1050x injectors
Surgetank
oilcooler

After everything is working well I plan on a built K24 with a ported 20 head and some cams maybe 4pistons RR3
Quaife sequential with flatshift



that's the plan for now. Subject to change as I get into it

With the Haltech I will place sensors for IAT both sides of intercooler to measure efficiency. Twin 38mm wastegates is due to space constraints they will not be in an optimal position and I want the ability to run very low boost as I plan on racing car a bit.

Also no Honda shop is doing this... Me and a buddy will handle most of it with another friend that does the welding on titanium manifolds for some well know boutique shops. Tuning will be done by a well know and reputable guy does mostly Porsche and Ferrari tuning but has experience with Honda and many other platforms.
 

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Anybody know how this project finished out?
I too am considering K-swap. Did a search and didn't get back much from here ;)
Thanks In Advance
 

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* Acme Super Moderator * ** The Enforcer **
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Anybody know how this project finished out?
I too am considering K-swap. Did a search and didn't get back much from here ;)
Thanks In Advance
Post 8 in this very thread will provide lots of information.

This topic has been discussed at length. Expect a lot of compromises and very little return (if any) on your investment when it comes time to sell.

San
 

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Mine should have been done today, but my shift actuator failed electrically. Expect the swap to cost 2-3x what you are thinking at a minimum.
 

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Post 8 in this very thread will provide lots of information.

This topic has been discussed at length. Expect a lot of compromises and very little return (if any) on your investment when it comes time to sell.

San
It is few times I saw your comment about the reselling value with the k swap. I agree and disagree. For street use, the 2zz is good and maybe able to manage 400hp. Tracking the car is something else, and tracking a lot the car is a serious lost in term of reselling value. I was tracking a lot the car few years ago with the 2zz with around 350 hp. It was costing me 2 engines per years, plus a gear rebuild every 2 years. Many times I was able to finish my track days. I put so much money on that car with the 2zz... i stopped tracking the car since it was too fragile, too much labor for the fun. 3 years ago I put a k20 on. I restarted to track the car, more and more. After 2 years of tracking, I dismounted the engine for inspection, it was like new. Ok, the power is limited for reliability at around 450 hp, but I am impress for the reliability. I did a refresh of the engine, and ran last summer. The engine is on the car, no inspection this winter since I suppose it is like new inside. Now, I can track the car for the next few years. If the car do not have value at the, my gain the pleasure having driving a wonderful car for that long, and finishing my track day. In the past, I had the reputation of having a fast car not able to finish my days. Now, the reputation is back of running a GT3 eater, and able to drive days after days.
For the compromise, I don’t see it. The car start better, the idle is better, the torque is better at low rpm, the Hondata ecu kit is easy, I can adjust everything. The parts are available as usual Honda community, better than Toyota.
When I stopped to track the lotus, I was looking maybe for a corvette. How much lost for tracking that beast?
But putting a k for street use, on a nice looking car is probably a big lost of resell. I know people looking for car with a k swap done since many do not trust the 2ZZ for track use.
It is a little bit like a discussion about using original breaker on vintage car, or using electronic ignition. You want the car original or want to use it!
No offense, I just reply because I saw your comments few times about the resell value.
 

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It is few times I saw your comment about the reselling value with the k swap. I agree and disagree. For street use, the 2zz is good and maybe able to manage 400hp. Tracking the car is something else, and tracking a lot the car is a serious lost in term of reselling value. I was tracking a lot the car few years ago with the 2zz with around 350 hp. It was costing me 2 engines per years, plus a gear rebuild every 2 years. Many times I was able to finish my track days. I put so much money on that car with the 2zz... i stopped tracking the car since it was too fragile, too much labor for the fun. 3 years ago I put a k20 on. I restarted to track the car, more and more. After 2 years of tracking, I dismounted the engine for inspection, it was like new. Ok, the power is limited for reliability at around 450 hp, but I am impress for the reliability. I did a refresh of the engine, and ran last summer. The engine is on the car, no inspection this winter since I suppose it is like new inside. Now, I can track the car for the next few years. If the car do not have value at the, my gain the pleasure having driving a wonderful car for that long, and finishing my track day. In the past, I had the reputation of having a fast car not able to finish my days. Now, the reputation is back of running a GT3 eater, and able to drive days after days.
For the compromise, I don’t see it. The car start better, the idle is better, the torque is better at low rpm, the Hondata ecu kit is easy, I can adjust everything. The parts are available as usual Honda community, better than Toyota.
When I stopped to track the lotus, I was looking maybe for a corvette. How much lost for tracking that beast?
But putting a k for street use, on a nice looking car is probably a big lost of resell. I know people looking for car with a k swap done since many do not trust the 2ZZ for track use.
It is a little bit like a discussion about using original breaker on vintage car, or using electronic ignition. You want the car original or want to use it!
No offense, I just reply because I saw your comments few times about the resell value.
Even those who do the K swap usually comment that if they had it to do over again they would have reconsidered. Taking an Elise/Exige and doing a K swap will result in a car that will be worth far less than a stock Elise/Exige. I've never seen a K swap Elise/Exige car on this forum sell for a reasonable amount of money.

The compromises are usually AC, functionality and the lack of conversion kits to address the big/little things. I don't speak from experience, but rather from others that have spend literally years trying to get everything right, and at considerable expense.

If you're making a purpose-built track-only car, it may make sense to do a K swap. I personally would consider another platform for the K swap that wouldn't ruin the resale value of an Elise/Exige, which is one of the few cars that is actually appreciating in value.

San
 

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Speaking as someone who has done this swap and had a pretty rough go of it... it is not for everyone.

I could waste a lot of keystrokes on whether or not it's a good decision. The pros and cons columns would be overstuffed. At the end of it all, it really comes down to your financial situation and whether or not you're ok figuring things out as there really isn't a comprehensive plug-n-play kit this side of the pond (this side being the USA).

One thing I can say for sure is that it's expensive.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I were to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't. For the headache, I would've just shipped my car off to BOE and asked for their shop special. Built 2ZZ with full REV400 regalia. Upgrade the gearbox with the internals offered by BWR. The only question would be if I wanted to keep AC or not since the Front HEX from BOE requires removal of the condenser. It's not a trivial question; even with the solution they have to retain the condenser, it is a compromise --- if you go full-built 400 and want optimal heat rejection you need to decide whether the car you're building is a track car or a street car; best charge-cooling requires AC deletion. MIND YOU, the stouter gearset that is available now was NOT available when I pulled the trigger on my swap and shot myself in the foot.

NOW. Having said all that, the reality is there exists no time machine so I simply CAN'T go back and make another decision. From where I'm standing today, I'm happy with the decision I made. Why? Because I learned so much about the car and wrenching, in general. Before the project, I could nervously fumble my way through an oil change and that was pretty much the entirety of my automotive knowledge/skills base. Now, I can tear the engine bay apart and put back together in a day and I'm pretty confident in my mechanical wrenching abilities. I've met some great people along the way and I have a car that is pretty well sorted. Yes, it was an expensive education. But for me the +XP has been invaluable.

In the spirit of contributing something useful to this thread, I can now, with some hindsight, speak to what would constitute a solid track build that is reliable and powerful, but not cheap. No turbo insights though since I don't really have experience with turbo cars. I would opt for supercharging anyway on this platform since linear power delivery is more in keeping with the character of the car as well as the potential for overall smaller intake volume to pressurize (in-manifold intercooler ala BOE's REV400 system).

First off, if you want to keep things NA, a built K24/K20 Frankenstein setup will walk all over a 2ZZ built-for-built. Plus, you'll have more choices when it comes to engine builders for the Honda platform (yes, we can argue about which shops are reputable, but there are plenty to choose from). With an I/H/E package, the higher flowing K20 head, some more aggressive cams, a good tune, and E85, the mill will produce over 300whp all-motor and be dead nuts reliable and under-stressed. You won't have to deal with mid-rear-engine heat rejection issues that come with FI and everything is simple and lightweight. Honestly, THIS might be the way I'd go if I did magically end up going back in time for a re-do.

If you want FI, get a low-miles K24A2, slap a TVS1320 on there, MercRacing or similar in-manifold intercooler plumbed to BOE's Front HEX, delete AC, oil cooler solution (Laminova is good or run a separate rear-mount oil cooler), forged gearset for a Civic Si gearbox, Hondata with a good tune, and you're sitting pretty in pocket rocket ready to escape Earth's gravity well. If you want extra protection or want to make even more power, prep for E85. I'm convinced this is the recipe for FI as heat rejection becomes an issue with the older roots-style blowers.

That's the general map. There are, of course, many devils in the details.
 
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