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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all, I'm looking at doing a K24 swap. I've been in contact with one of the guys from Chase Bays Inc, and we're piecing a kit together. Also have had some help from MNlotus on these forums, and wanted to thank him.

I've heard Joe McCarthy had a kit that would allow A/C. Would anyone happen to know what all I would need to make this work(just line work or what?) Texas heat is no fun in a car with no A/C, and my elise not being a track only car I would love to keep A/C.

Any info is appreciated.

-Ty-
 

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Absolute power does what?
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and my elise not being a track only car I would love to keep A/C.
Sorry but I have to ask - if it's not a try car why in the world would you go through all the pain/expense/time of swapping to a K24? Don't mean to poo poo your idea but another owner and I were talking about this recently and I'll admit I don't get it - especially for a street car...
 

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Just seems like a breathtaking amount of work to do it right. Splicing into wiring harness, getting gauges to work, getting A/C to work, passing emissions with the OBDII interrogation, interfacing shifter, clutch, of course all the mechanical bits like motor mounts, half shafts, oil and water plumbing.

If you just want more power, a bolt-on supercharger seems way better.

To touch on the original question, you will not only have to connect a compressor to the existing A/C lines, you will need to interface with the HVAC controls and ECU to engage the A/C pulley clutch and to have the ECU bump up idle a bit when the A/C clutch is engaged. Look at a wiring diagam; this is non-trivial. Mechanically, it might be easiest to put the existing A/C compressor on the K24 accessory drive system, so at least all the fittings match up.
 

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Google whatsadsm's thread plenty of answers there. I just did a swap and I have never even dropped a tranny in my life!

A/c you need to use the stock a/c compressor the Honda one is way too big.

Take a ride in mine or whatsadsm's "street car" and you'll see why it's worth it.


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Discussion Starter #5
Sorry but I have to ask - if it's not a try car why in the world would you go through all the pain/expense/time of swapping to a K24? Don't mean to poo poo your idea but another owner and I were talking about this recently and I'll admit I don't get it - especially for a street car...
Because I have a built k24 with built transmission sitting in my garage collecting dust.For the amount I could sell my 2zz for I could piece together a swap kit. ECU and harness are not an issue =) I've done many swaps in many different cars, never had an issue with getting my ECU to fully work.

Google whatsadsm's thread plenty of answers there. I just did a swap and I have never even dropped a tranny in my life!

A/c you need to use the stock a/c compressor the Honda one is way too big.

Take a ride in mine or whatsadsm's "street car" and you'll see why it's worth it.


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Thank you that is all I really needed to know, and thanks for the info on whatsadsm's thread =)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Any questions post them there and you'll get an answer from one of us.


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Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll keep you guys informed on how the build is going. Going to be getting a new house soon, so I have to wait on the build until then, but once that happens it should go pretty fast =D
 

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Absolute power does what?
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Because I have a built k24 with built transmission sitting in my garage collecting dust
That seems like a reasonable answer - and sorry, didn't mean to sound like an a$$ but as I said I just don't get why people do this. I suppose that's the beauty of modding cars - different strokes for different folks. If it doesn't make me faster on the track I don't do it. For some I'm sure that's totally crazy too ;-)
 

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Sorry but I have to ask - if it's not a try car why in the world would you go through all the pain/expense/time of swapping to a K24? Don't mean to poo poo your idea but another owner and I were talking about this recently and I'll admit I don't get it - especially for a street car...
On many fronts I agree. For a lot of people it really doesn't make sense. If one of the 2zz supercharger kits gets you what you want then it is FAR FAR less hassle to go down that route. Don't bother.

The upside to the K-series is the aftermarket. You can go with a NA K20, NA K24, Supercharged K, Turbo'd K. Whatever the hell you want. Anything from a basic bolt on 230whp setup to a 1000whp turbo setup. Simply put the K-series is a better PLATFORM to build upon than the 2zz.

FWIW my car is primarily a street car (although it does see some auto-x, HPDE, and even drag racing once in a while). It made 383hp/278ft-lbs at the wheels; Easily more than double the horsepower and double the torque of the NA 2zz. That's on an (essentially) stock $1500 junk yard engine with bolt-on, off-the-shelf components. Exiged makes at least the power that I do with his K20. He has a little more DIY work in his setup but still nothing extravagant. Just goes to show you the capability that is there.

Just seems like a breathtaking amount of work to do it right. Splicing into wiring harness, getting gauges to work, getting A/C to work, passing emissions with the OBDII interrogation, interfacing shifter, clutch, of course all the mechanical bits like motor mounts, half shafts, oil and water plumbing.

If you just want more power, a bolt-on supercharger seems way better.

To touch on the original question, you will not only have to connect a compressor to the existing A/C lines, you will need to interface with the HVAC controls and ECU to engage the A/C pulley clutch and to have the ECU bump up idle a bit when the A/C clutch is engaged. Look at a wiring diagam; this is non-trivial. Mechanically, it might be easiest to put the existing A/C compressor on the K24 accessory drive system, so at least all the fittings match up.
Again I agree assuming a bolt-on supercharger kit on the 2zz will provide the results people are looking for... and for most people I'll bet it will.

Now as for the other stuff. I agree that the wiring is ABSOLUTELY a daunting task. To do it right is not easy. TyMurray make no mistake about it, between interfacing to the stock accessories, as well as the dash, ac etc. it is NOT like throwing it in some EG civic. Different ball game.

However:
The wiring can be handled basically 100% without lifting a soldering iron. I will modify hybrid's universal harness to be like 95% plug and play. Only thing you need to wire is the reverse sensor for reverse lights and even that you can use a T-Tap and have it done in 30-seconds if you want. For TyMurray, kverges, and anyone else lurking that means:

Stock accessories, such as fuel pump, fans, etc. etc. = Check
Stock Dash = Check (although I will admit Hondata is working through a small issue ATM)
AC wiring = Check
OBD-II Integration = Check. Not to mention being able to tune our cars with a fantastic EMS that is ~$1000

My car thinks it's a Lotus, my ECU thinks its a very fast RSX.

Mechanically... motor mounts, axles, shifter, mechanical throttle are all part of a swap kit. A header, while very expensive, is a very well made piece that can be purchased from hytech. Swapping most certainly does take some DIY and mechanical talent, however assuming you have the funds the major mechanical and electrical work is already handled.


TyMurray here are other comments I have:
- As for the ACTUAL AC. It has been done before by Joe M. I believe. However those of us with the Innovative Kit do not have it. The basic premise is that a plate is needed to mount the original Lotus 2zz AC Compressor to the Honda K.

- IMHO the BIGGEST issue with the swap is simply getting the parts. Both Joe M. and Innovative both don't have the greatest reputation in getting parts in a reasonable amount of time. If you are truly considering this swap I strongly urge you to MAKE SURE you know the real status of the swap parts and when you can expect them.

- Be careful of the Honda used market. Honest to god it seems like half of them are either scammers or people who misrepresent their parts.

- And to conclude. Again make NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT it is a lot of work/time, and to some extent money. If one of the bolt-on supercharger kits on the 2zz will work for you please realize you can save your self a TON of hassle going that route. If you are a DIY guy, or want the best platform, or have some other reasoning (really like NA power, want torque, etc.) then it may be the right choice. To each their own.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Very well put. I'll just buy a spare 2zz compressor and see what I can come up with for making it work. The only thing I'm ordering from innovative is the mounts, Chase bays Inc is helping me get ahold of everything else. Once again, thanks for all the info guys.
 

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Tim from innovative actually just got back to me saying they are almost finished with an a/c bracket. Guess I won't have to make one :p
 

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Very well put. I'll just buy a spare 2zz compressor and see what I can come up with for making it work. The only thing I'm ordering from innovative is the mounts, Chase bays Inc is helping me get ahold of everything else. Once again, thanks for all the info guys.
Please keep us posted if you have a second source for any of the other stuff like axles, shifter linkage, exhaust header, etc. Again these pieces need to be custom made for the Lotus. Finding a civic axle shafts or shifter linkage won't do you any good. I have a feeling you will be getting a hold of Tim @ Innovative or Joe McCarthy but if not and you have another source please post it.

Also I'm 99% sure Chase Bays won't be able to make the dash work, there is simply no way to hook up wires here or there and make it work... Again this is not the same as dropping a K-series into a Civic/S2000/etc. It requires a digital converter box with Lotus specific CAN protocol. Plan on buying the Hondata Lotus converter box assuming you are running K-pro. If you are going to run an EMS like an AEM, Haltech, etc. then shoot me an email or PM and I can make you a converter that will do it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'll be running a kpro, and im fairly certain they will use the hondata converter box. They said they have done them before and got everything working.
 

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Those K24 Elises are rockets. I watched a track video os a k24, and he was going through third gear as fast as I go through second (my car has a mid-sized supercharger kit). I would love to see a head-head video of a K24 vs a built rev400 kitted 2zz-ge.
 

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The rev400 is a great kit, but the K24 swap is cheaper will give 30-40% more torque than the 2ZZ. It's hard to convince people until they take a ride, and then their eyes glaze over.

I have AC on a K24 swap. Keep your AC compressor. It is the smallest AC compressor in existence, and nothing else will fit unless the engine is moved back a lot or raised. As it is we had to make a custom right angle fitting for the hose to give more firewall clearance.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well that's good there are 2 people including myself still waiting for it. It was supposed to be done in February.


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Lol if it comes down to it ill make one and produce some extras if innovative hasn't finished it by the time I do my build.
 

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Those K24 Elises are rockets. I watched a track video os a k24, and he was going through third gear as fast as I go through second (my car has a mid-sized supercharger kit). I would love to see a head-head video of a K24 vs a built rev400 kitted 2zz-ge.
There is a guy that lives near me with a rev400 but stock motor. I sold jimmy 2zz so I'm sure we can get at least a k20 rotrex vs rev400. I plan to get a gopro soon so I'll do some videos of my car banging through the gears which goes quick!

I went with the k20 because it was easier to buy and toss in.. I would love to see the torque that whatsadsm is putting down but I would probably miss the higher revs. That said he misses his higher revs but would probably miss the torque. I'm just getting started with my car but their is easy upgrades for me that could seriously increase the power level... Although I will say the car is insane as it is. I usually get yelled at after the first few gear changes and like DStevens said most passengers don't know what to say.

As for the a/c bracket I have heard that the prototype would
Be in innovative shop since February and still nothing. I wouldn't plan on a/c until 2013 if you are going to wait for
them. Other then that I got all the parts I needed for my swap in partial shipments and they were very nice quality.


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Discussion Starter #19
Yeah, as I am about to buy a house I will have to wait until after that to start my build. (early next year) if they're not out by that time then I will definitely make one for myself, and produce some extras...
 

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Those K24 Elises are rockets. I watched a
track video os a k24, and he was going through third gear as fast as I
go through second (my car has a mid-sized supercharger kit).
...
...I plan to get a gopro soon so I'll do some
videos of my car banging through the gears which goes quick!
...
Indeed was out testing the dash converter and left my internal logging
on. Figured I would download it for ****s and giggles. Unfortunately
it missed my launch where I actually managed to pedal the car well
enough to get traction through 1st and 2nd. Instead it got one of my
runs where I got caught being overzealous with the throttle and had to
wait a while while it bounced off the limiter a bunch in 2nd gear.
Even with that, it looks like 0-60 was somewhere in the mid-high 2s,
and it can get through 3rd gear in about 1.4x seconds. Once you
include all the shifting, waiting while it was on the limiter I still
get 0-82 mph in ~4.5 seconds. :shift:

Traction control is gonna be sweet!

 
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