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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering what the proper procedure is for left foot braking.

I know that left foot braking has 2 purposes:
1. Load transfer for better lateral traction on the front wheels and proper balance of car.
2. reduces time spent moving from gas to brake.


I read on a few sites about this technique.

Was wondering if this is correct?

1. In a straight line before the turn, release gas and press the brake fully.
2. Before turning apply gas Moderately while also release a bit of brake pressure.
3. Turn in
4. When apex reached , release brakes and fully on gas again.
 

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I've been meaning to try this out on the track.

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I've been practicing this along w/ left foot braking to get the car to rotate on the turns in my racing sims. Fun stuff.
 

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Years ago I stared doing this in ovel track racing and I've kept up with it, I find it works very well in auto-x as well.
 

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most of the guys that come up from karting are doing this already. One of the guys I race F2000 does and it works well for him. Problem is, in that car, if you do spin, it's very difficult to get your left foot back out from under the steering rack in time to reach the clutch. I do not like to do clutchless downshifts even with the sequential box, so I keep my left foot on that side of the steering rack.
 

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Was wondering if this is correct?

1. In a straight line before the turn, release gas and press the brake fully.
2. Before turning apply gas Moderately while also release a bit of brake pressure.
3. Turn in
4. When apex reached , release brakes and fully on gas again.
Depends on the corner. Try driving in a straight line with some pressure on the brakes and some throttle....then release the brakes while keeping the throttle in the same position...see how much the car lurches forward. Good technique to use for rolling starts in races.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If one masters the technique of left foo braking, do you feel trail braking is really not necessary anymore?

For the MANUAL transmission guys it will be much harder to master
 

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i know its a repost, but . . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #8
now for Fwd cars I can visualize how left foot braking through a turn can help improve traction.

For Rwd cars ...they don't have as much understeer as Fwd cars.
However, the front of the car still needs traction as the load of the car always transfer to the back of the car when on the throttle.
Do you guys feel it is affective to use Left foot brake on RWD cars?

I know 4wd and FWD benefit alot.
 

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now for Fwd cars I can visualize how left foot braking through a turn can help improve traction.

For Rwd cars ...they don't have as much understeer as Fwd cars.
However, the front of the car still needs traction as the load of the car always transfer to the back of the car when on the throttle.
Do you guys feel it is affective to use Left foot brake on RWD cars?

I know 4wd and FWD benefit alot.

the pros use it...that is good enough reason for me to believe it helps.
 

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in some old turbo cars (elan m100) you just about have to at time to keep the boost going.
 

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I started this for the reason fitfan mentions above, to keep the boost up. With turbo cars you need to drive out of phase to get the power when and where you need it(at least in auto-x, which is my drug of choice). With the twin-screw, I don't need to do this, but the LFB gives me so much more control to roll a bit of gas in at the same time to settle the rear of if I over cook it into a corner. If I do trail brake it into the corner to get the back to rotate it is that much faster on the gas to start pulling out of the turn.
 

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I've tried it several times at the track and felt very awkward, especially where downshifts are necessary, which is almost always. It was particularly difficult to get the right amount of pressure - kinda feels like a lame foot in comparo to the right. I think it'll take a lot of practice to use LFB as effectively as the right.
 

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I do not understand why this wouldn't be true:

Full Throttle + A Bit Of Brakes = A Little Less Throttle

Not saying I'm closed minded... I just don't understand why. Guess I'm too much of a newb.

xtn
 

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I do not understand why this wouldn't be true:

Full Throttle + A Bit Of Brakes = A Little Less Throttle

Not saying I'm closed minded... I just don't understand why. Guess I'm too much of a newb.

xtn
xtn, there is one corner here at PIR that if you keep the car floored, and tap the brakes with your left foot at the same time, it can settle the front end for the turn in, and save time from going back and forth with one foot only.
i am still learning to LFB. its not natural for me, but I practice all the time in my truck at working on touch/modualtion(muscle memory) with my left. I have gotten pretty good with it, and can utilize this techinique.
one thing to remember is doing something like this can casue a mistake, or worse a wreck, so a driver must consider what they have to lose vs how much gain they are going to get.
I dont know how much, or even if any gain is realized for me, but i like it because it scares me. it like turn nine at willow, where your brain /survial instinct says lift, but you overcome that and stay calm and do something else.

as for godzila, the OP, i feel like you are really over thinking this.
keep it simple, and the answers will come to you.
if someone is learning this, or not completely comfortable doing this technique, dont practice it on the fast corners on a track, try it on the slower speed areas first where there is run off.
as you feel confident that you can control the car work your way up.

imo nobody should feel this is a must do thing to be a fast driver. its a technique, the thing that will make someone fast at speed is being smooth on ALL of the cars inputs throttle, brakes and steering, and the combination and TIMING of those.

maybe I am wrong, wouldnt be the first time, but this is what works for me, and what i concentrate on in addition to focusing on looking ahead at the track as it comes to me.

everyone has different reflexes, vision, and reaction times, so we are not all created equal when it comes to racing.
drive as fast and hard as you can, but remember to keep it safe, and you will not win in a race, or be a sucsessful HPDE driver if you dont finish the sessions.
 

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I agree with Fishy on this. Left Foot Braking is not a requirement to go quickly; there are a number of people who don't. In SRF, one of the fastest guys in the country -- who came over from karts -- actually STOPPED using left foot braking because he felt it didn't work with the SRF.

My belief is that with our rear-weighted cars, the best way around the track is brake early, and as you turn in apply power to stick the rear end.

Steve
 

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My belief is that with our rear-weighted cars, the best way around the track is brake early, and as you turn in apply power to stick the rear end.

Steve
I tend to disagree here. Fastest way around the track is brake late, trail brake into the corner lift if you have to to get the car to rotate then apply throttle out of the corner.

Problem with entering the corner on throttle is the lack of front grip.


I do not understand why this wouldn't be true:

Full Throttle + A Bit Of Brakes = A Little Less Throttle

Not saying I'm closed minded... I just don't understand why. Guess I'm too much of a newb.

xtn
If your interested in learning left foot braking, they teach it at Driveway Austins Racing School.
 

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Problem with entering the corner on throttle is the lack of front grip.
IME, that is an indicator of carrying too much speed into the entry. And being at all in the habit of lifting to adjust your line will eventually put you in the gravel.

While there are a few exceptions here and there to that rule, they are few and far between.

Steve
 

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IME, that is an indicator of carrying too much speed into the entry. And being at all in the habit of lifting to adjust your line will eventually put you in the gravel.

While there are a few exceptions here and there to that rule, they are few and far between.

Steve
I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.. :D
 

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I tend to disagree here. Fastest way around the track is brake late, trail brake into the corner lift if you have to to get the car to rotate then apply throttle out of the corner.

Problem with entering the corner on throttle is the lack of front grip.




If your interested in learning left foot braking, they teach it at Driveway Austins Racing School.
disclaimer:
there is always going to be disagreement on this stuff.
there is no one "right way", as driver styles are all different.
I would tell someone to try different things, and see what works best for them.

that said:

To me late braking is the slow way to get through the corner, as it hurts your exit speed and momentum and thus also hurts your lap time, though you can gain/keep car positions in a race by utilizing it.

i think what needs to be agreed upon is for this discussion is where the "correct" brake marker is for each driver in each corner.
My brake marker (braking point) may be later than someone elses due to car variances(set up), and tires/grip, or just the driver itself....etc.
when we are in our cars, we are not all created equally.
again, drivers have different reflexes, vision, and feel of the car, as well as some are just braver than others.

I notice my braking points are DEEPER than some most other drivers, but I am NOT late braking. I utilize late braking only when i am doing so for position on another car to make a pass, OR, when i am in practice, and finding out just how DEEP my brake point can be relative to my already established braking point.

as i use it, trail braking is a way to slow the car up a bit more, without hurting the BALANCE of the car to much into the turn as much as a hard pedal application would do. Trail braking allows me to make my braking points deeper(as standard) as opposed to "late braking", again, which to me, is something i only use when positioning for a pass or establishing a deeper brake point in practice. trail braking can also allow me to carry more speed into the corner deeper.

late braking= braking later than what i do as the norm for that corner.

trail braking will be a part of the norm for a given corner, but can also be done as a late braking move for position. hard to explain in writing i think w/out using my hands to show car positions.


You dont know how deep you can go, or how much speed you can carry into a corner until you try it, but take small incremements in this area, or pay the price.

I guess i think of late braking as braking later than my normal established brake point on the track for a partcular corner.

it might seem, to some on the track with me, that I am late braking every corner as i go by them, but that is not the case. many times when guys late brake me, i can blow by them on the corner exit as they scrub way to much speed off getting the car under control, and I go underneath them on the exit. this is always a favorite of mine; to force another competitor into this mistake (maybe another reason to "late brake", racing is a chess game at speed) and capture much more time on the track by letting them blow the corner while i am patient and fast for the entire lap.
If myself and a competitior are exactly equal, this can be the difference in winning or losing the race, barring any other mistakes by either of us.

for me, i know i am a very strong driver on the brakes, it was learned from my motorcycle roadracing days. bikes are so light that you can do some scary stuff on the brakes, and get away with it.
i used to see faster guys go into corners next to me, or in front of me, and stand the bike up on just the front wheel at 100+ mph. they were in another league than I was.:crazyeyes

for me the motorcycling has helped car racing on braking, as well as understand and feeling the balance of the car. On bikes, if you got the weight off one end in the corners too much, it was easy to see the results. adios amigo :)

cars are the same, except you also have weight transfer laterally from wheels as well as front/back, and sliding is a bit easier and safer.

that said, to address the last statement;
Problem with entering the corner on throttle is the lack of front grip.

try entering the coner with zero acceleration/deceleration. this will give the car front/rear balance for maximum grip. understand that zero acceleration does not mean not applying throttle. you can apply the throttle to a position of zero acceleration( think of rev matching as an example of this).

I look at it this way, I agree with you about losing front grip under acceleration, this is why TIMING of applying/unapplying throttle to the correct throttle position for the moment at hand is everything.
what i try to do is set my corner speed using my brakes so that i can have the throttle OPEN to the amount of speed I am carrying. lets say 3/4 open as an example, i am matching the throttle position to the speed, after letting off the brakes. this way i am in control of the car(not coasting, thats when the car controls you). i am now using 3/4 throttle, in this example ,through the apex of the turn, and then rolling onto the throttle as i pass through the apex. the quicker i can roll on the throttle in the corner, the faster my corner exit speed should/will be unless i go past the point of losing to much grip and being smooth.
I hope that makes sense.


to me going fast, is all about being smooth and timing your inputs.

when it feels "slow", i know am hauling ass and in the zone. when it feels fast, and I am sawing at the wheel, and slamming the car with inputs, i am usually well off the pace.

this makes sense to me, and is how i teach myself every time i am at the track and look for that last .1 second.
sorry if i did not explain this well, and confused anyone. if this is the case, then please just ignore this post.:)

best thing is, if it works for you,.............do it.
if it doesnt work for you, ........then dont do it.
 

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When Im talking about late braking in my above post Im speaking of breaking later than normal allowing you to carry some of the brakes into the corner so that weight is still transfered to the front tires to get maximum front grip on corner entry. This allows you to carry more speed into the corner than normal as your front tires are generally the limiting factor of corner entry speeds. Once your pointed towards Apex you can roll back onto the throttle and make small adjustments (more or less throttle) until you get to apex in which you can start to accelerate to track out point.
 
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