looking for more grip, this time less power...
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Sure but im confiused...
So what is exact place that I should start in your Opinion?
Guys thank you for trying help me, I would love to pay somone to do adjustment for me but here in Poland no one have a clue about it, lotus is an exotic and we have just one race track in Poland
I did this last year, Im still waiting for balast i have to add to the weight of the car and then will do cornering
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Re-read posts 6, 8 and 14. :facepalmSure but im confiused...
So what is exact place that I should start in your Opinion?
Guys thank you for trying help me, I would love to pay somone to do adjustment for me but here in Poland no one have a clue about it, lotus is an exotic and we have just one race track in Poland
Front camber you recommend wont destroy my front wheel traction? Half of the tire wont be hot enough....
Front is soft as you can see on the pictures so on braking there will be additional - 2 degree of camber...
Toe per side or in total?
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Not really...not enough to matter. All that will do is make the feel different in right hand turns from left hand turns...and not track straight.
Take the wheels off and measure the distance from the mounting face to the edge of the rim...you will have to put a stick across the wheel to do this. If they are different, you have bad quality wheels. Get new ones!
Here is under braking
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...ok/w1338-h889-no/DSC08694+%281600x1063%29.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...ok/w1338-h889-no/DSC08694+%281600x1063%29.jpg
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3,249 Posts
My toe numbers are per side...so only 0.2-mm total toe out in the front. Almost zero!
You will also need to buy the front upper wishbones and steering arms from a 2-Eleven to get that much camber in the front... they fit on all othe Lotus chassis...just made for motor sport use.
O man, this is custom forged lightest you can have braids for 6000 euros per set..belive me they are just fine.
Agree, was thinking about them.
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3,249 Posts
Forged Braids are great! But check them...they could have made a mistake. Mistakes always could happen...
No you didnt understand, im trying to show that wheels are in longer distance from the shocks so this create different force working on the spring/shock...
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You did not say that before and I did miss that, but you don't understand the load paths either...wheel offset does not change the leverage on your shock absorbers, it only puts a lot higher loading on your wheel bearings and your ball joints by adding a moment component...that additional moment is such a small change to the overall system, that I doubt you would be able o feel that. Your suspension geometry is fixed by your wishbones, chassis mounting points and your uprights...and therefore your shock leverage.
re: Not enough rear traction
Lot's of good info here. However, you need to go one step at a time.
1. You say in the rear L-1,59 R -2.02 . This is .4 degree camber difference. This is not very good. However, you should notice that turning right or left is better. You should get it equal, so you can reliably measure next steps.
2. Your rear wheels look OK in the pic. The offset in the rear matters little. Wider stance provides better traction, but puts more stress on hub bearings. so we can park this discussion. If you think your wheels or suspension is not same side to side, measure it and make sure it is all symmetrical.
3. Buy a book on suspension tuning and read it. If you are getting serious about racing you should, even as a driver.
4. YOUR TIRE TEMPS ARE VERY BAD!!!! they are very un-even. Too much camber, too much toe or both! They are also too cold.
Standard approach:
1. Adjust toe till middle and one side of tire is almost the same i.e. under 5C difference. Do not go beyond 0 toe, front or rear.
2. Then adjust camber to equalize the other side of the tire, as much as you can.
3. during steps 1 and 2 adjust shock settings to suit your driving style.
1,2,3 are pretty involved steps and will take a while, unless you have an alignment rack at the track.
Once you get the alignment straightened out. You can adjust sway bars and springs and repeat the process. Changing tires may require to repeat the process as tires from different manufacturers are different.
Comments:
1. Since you are at the limit of shock adjustment Something is not right. Shocks are designed and valved for a range of spring rates. What were these shocks set-up for?
2. your front spring rate is what everyone runs. your rear is soft. it should provide more traction.... I would not change springs... unless
3. It looks at times that you are hitting the spring bump stop on the rear during hard cornering under compression. this would result in the kind of snap oversteer that you easily correct (the correction on turn-in should not be as easy as it is. Check this ASAP.
4. As long as suspension has stock geometry i.e. stock a-arms, ball joints and spring location, the spring rates are OK.
5. What happens, if you make Slow compression stiffer in the rear shock?
6. By setting up the car yourself, you set yourself on a tuning path. I think it is fun. Otherwise, you should have bought the whole suspension set-up from a known racer like BWR. Penske's (3-way) are the real deal!!!
BWR raced the car and would just give you their winning set-up. Perhaps too late for that.
Personal preferences:
1. Michelin and Pirelly slicks are better than what you run.
2. Some people love plate LSD's and some hate them. Same goes for Torsen.
3. I do not like the amount of body roll in a Lotus (or some Ferraries).
Good luck!
Anton
Lot's of good info here. However, you need to go one step at a time.
1. You say in the rear L-1,59 R -2.02 . This is .4 degree camber difference. This is not very good. However, you should notice that turning right or left is better. You should get it equal, so you can reliably measure next steps.
2. Your rear wheels look OK in the pic. The offset in the rear matters little. Wider stance provides better traction, but puts more stress on hub bearings. so we can park this discussion. If you think your wheels or suspension is not same side to side, measure it and make sure it is all symmetrical.
3. Buy a book on suspension tuning and read it. If you are getting serious about racing you should, even as a driver.
4. YOUR TIRE TEMPS ARE VERY BAD!!!! they are very un-even. Too much camber, too much toe or both! They are also too cold.
Standard approach:
1. Adjust toe till middle and one side of tire is almost the same i.e. under 5C difference. Do not go beyond 0 toe, front or rear.
2. Then adjust camber to equalize the other side of the tire, as much as you can.
3. during steps 1 and 2 adjust shock settings to suit your driving style.
1,2,3 are pretty involved steps and will take a while, unless you have an alignment rack at the track.
Once you get the alignment straightened out. You can adjust sway bars and springs and repeat the process. Changing tires may require to repeat the process as tires from different manufacturers are different.
Comments:
1. Since you are at the limit of shock adjustment Something is not right. Shocks are designed and valved for a range of spring rates. What were these shocks set-up for?
2. your front spring rate is what everyone runs. your rear is soft. it should provide more traction.... I would not change springs... unless
3. It looks at times that you are hitting the spring bump stop on the rear during hard cornering under compression. this would result in the kind of snap oversteer that you easily correct (the correction on turn-in should not be as easy as it is.
Check this ASAP.4. As long as suspension has stock geometry i.e. stock a-arms, ball joints and spring location, the spring rates are OK.
5. What happens, if you make Slow compression stiffer in the rear shock?
6. By setting up the car yourself, you set yourself on a tuning path. I think it is fun. Otherwise, you should have bought the whole suspension set-up from a known racer like BWR. Penske's (3-way) are the real deal!!!
BWR raced the car and would just give you their winning set-up. Perhaps too late for that.
Personal preferences:
1. Michelin and Pirelly slicks are better than what you run.
2. Some people love plate LSD's and some hate them. Same goes for Torsen.
3. I do not like the amount of body roll in a Lotus (or some Ferraries).
Good luck!
Anton
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405 Posts
++1Lot's of good info here. However, you need to go one step at a time.
1. You say in the rear L-1,59 R -2.02 . This is .4 degree camber difference. This is not very good. However, you should notice that turning right or left is better. You should get it equal, so you can reliably measure next steps.
2. Your rear wheels look OK in the pic. The offset in the rear matters little. Wider stance provides better traction, but puts more stress on hub bearings. so we can park this discussion. If you think your wheels or suspension is not same side to side, measure it and make sure it is all symmetrical.
3. Buy a book on suspension tuning and read it. If you are getting serious about racing you should, even as a driver.
4. YOUR TIRE TEMPS ARE VERY BAD!!!! they are very un-even. Too much camber, too much toe or both! They are also too cold.
Standard approach:
1. Adjust toe till middle and one side of tire is almost the same i.e. under 5C difference. Do not go beyond 0 toe, front or rear.
2. Then adjust camber to equalize the other side of the tire, as much as you can.
3. during steps 1 and 2 adjust shock settings to suit your driving style.
1,2,3 are pretty involved steps and will take a while, unless you have an alignment rack at the track.
Once you get the alignment straightened out. You can adjust sway bars and springs and repeat the process. Changing tires may require to repeat the process as tires from different manufacturers are different.
Comments:
1. Since you are at the limit of shock adjustment Something is not right. Shocks are designed and valved for a range of spring rates. What were these shocks set-up for?
2. your front spring rate is what everyone runs. your rear is soft. it should provide more traction.... I would not change springs... unless
3. It looks at times that you are hitting the spring bump stop on the rear during hard cornering under compression. this would result in the kind of snap oversteer that you easily correct (the correction on turn-in should not be as easy as it is.
4. As long as suspension has stock geometry i.e. stock a-arms, ball joints and spring location, the spring rates are OK.
5. What happens, if you make Slow compression stiffer in the rear shock?
6. By setting up the car yourself, you set yourself on a tuning path. I think it is fun. Otherwise, you should have bought the whole suspension set-up from a known racer like BWR. Penske's (3-way) are the real deal!!!
BWR raced the car and would just give you their winning set-up. Perhaps too late for that.
Personal preferences:
1. Michelin and Pirelly slicks are better than what you run.
2. Some people love plate LSD's and some hate them. Same goes for Torsen.
3. I do not like the amount of body roll in a Lotus (or some Ferraries).
Good luck!
Anton
I definitely second Anton's comment #3 regarding the bump stop. However, I really think you need to take things step by step from square one. Car weight front/rear as raced, unsprung weights, what suspension bushings, what ride heights as raced, how much suspension travel B/R? What limits the bump and rebound travel? What are your typical max and min speeds at your events? Any estimates for your aero downforce?
With this info, one can calculate a set of spring rates that should be close and shock techs then can give you a valving to cover this +_ a %. Enough has been said on alignment so no comment on that from me.
But, as to where you are at the moment, how many total clicks shock adjustment and are your quoted settings from full soft or full hard? Is your diff 1, 1-1/2, or 2-way? Is your throttle an "on-off switch" or can you actually modulate the power? Are you confident your shock guys know their craft?
Bob
opcorn:The worst thing is that i have reciving different ideas from different people / forums....
Some saying my front is too soft and I agree on this as under braking its on the floor, sam saying i should lower rear of the car.
Some say i should use stiffer springs all around and then go back with all the clicks...
Lets try to go step by step.
Informations i have provided about cliks, camber, toe are readable?
How about my toe which now find a bit odd compering to what the others are using?
I got this details from well known race team in Holland, they were running same wheel tires dimensions last year.
Anton, tire brands you are mentioned are not avalble in my tires dimensions.
Tire temp was measured after 2 laps each less than 3 minutes long.
Some saying my front is too soft and I agree on this as under braking its on the floor, sam saying i should lower rear of the car.
Some say i should use stiffer springs all around and then go back with all the clicks...
Lets try to go step by step.
Informations i have provided about cliks, camber, toe are readable?
How about my toe which now find a bit odd compering to what the others are using?
I got this details from well known race team in Holland, they were running same wheel tires dimensions last year.
Anton, tire brands you are mentioned are not avalble in my tires dimensions.
Tire temp was measured after 2 laps each less than 3 minutes long.
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