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Dear all,
New on the chat from today. I am very glad to share experiences with you about our dear Elise-s!

I am the happy owner of a 2009 Elise 111R, 70 K miles that I purchased after three previous owners. The car is sane overall, but the gearbox shows some signs of ageing: The 3rd gear 'cracks" and I assume it is time for changing the 3rd gear synchro - and maybe more !...

Is one of you familiar with the Toyota 1.8 L 192 bHp engine and gearbox repair?
How should I access the gearbox ? does the engine need to be fully removed ? and if so, from underneath the car or after dismantling the rear chassis ?

I appreciate any advices for a smooth access to the gearbox, dismantling and repair, and will keep you all posted with picts of the whole process!
Thanks in advance for your replies!

best,
Wingo
 

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Hi, there are a number of writeups on removing the gearbox itself. Basically, you're going to get the car on jackstands that are fairly high, disconnect a bunch of stuff, and tilt the left side of the engine downward. From there you can disconnect the transmission from the engine and slide it out from underneath the car.

Its going to be a little harder to find information after that (ie cracking open the transmission and replacing the syncro)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Already quite nice from you to let me know the first steps.
I am trying to find a source for the corresponding Lotus workshop manual: I have it for the chassis, but it does not include the Engine and Gearbox/clutch sections ! Thanks again ! Wingo
 

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If you send me a PM with your email, I have the repair manual for the transmission. You will need some tools and a press in order to do the work. If you do not have very good mechanical skills, I would not recommend doing the work yourself. Blackwatch Racing does transmission work if you are looking for a shop.

Later,
Eldon
 

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HERE's a links to "how to remove the transmission"
 

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The toyota service manual covers the transmission rebuild well. However, these are a PITA to pull apart, as you need some special gear pullers and everything is pressed on super tight compared to most other transmissions. The trans is pretty easy to get out of the car if you have a garage space and some tools, but as for the rebuild, unless you've tore down other transmissions before I would suggest paying a transmission shop to rebuild it.
 

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Re: tools - having watched the video, it looks like a few tools made out of the right diameters of pipe and a hydraulic press would do as well as the special tools.

That said, you'll need some serious snap ring pliers, because you always do when doing a manual trans. Watch the video before you decide if you're going to tackle this yourself.

Also, Celica GT-S transmissions aren't all that rare or expensive. Consider picking up one and assessing/rebuilding that to minimise downtime.
 

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Pretty common to chip the 6th gear when pulling it off w/o the right tools.
 

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Pretty common to chip the 6th gear when pulling it off w/o the right tools.
Yes, that I believe. There are a lot of 'right tools,' though, and if you have a press, you probably also have the ability to make the 'right tool' if you don't have one.

I'll reiterate that transmission rebuilds aren't for everybody. That said, manuals are easier than automatics, and manuals are generally pretty much alike. The only oddity about the c60 family I see is that there are two gears outboard of the primary housing and bearing carriers in the aux housing to deal with the bending moment. I understand it's a bag on the C50 family, but still, you'd think they would have put the fifth gear inside the main case by now--when was the last time you saw a FWD four speed?
 

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Yes, that I believe. There are a lot of 'right tools,' though, and if you have a press, you probably also have the ability to make the 'right tool' if you don't have one.

I'll reiterate that transmission rebuilds aren't for everybody. That said, manuals are easier than automatics, and manuals are generally pretty much alike. The only oddity about the c60 family I see is that there are two gears outboard of the primary housing and bearing carriers in the aux housing to deal with the bending moment. I understand it's a bag on the C50 family, but still, you'd think they would have put the fifth gear inside the main case by now--when was the last time you saw a FWD four speed?
The fifth and sixth gear outside of the main case is not that unusual. Also, have you actually taken one of these boxes apart?

Later,
Eldon
 

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I've taken a C52 apart, which is its grandfather - synchros and bearings at high mileage. Haven't taken a C60 apart - mine only has 22K on it and shifts very well indeed. I've also rebuilt manual transes from four other manufacturers over 30 years.

Yes, I know it's common to put both 5 (and 6) on the outside of the main box, which makes sense if it's 1979, you're Fiat, and you want to add a fifth gear to your four speed 128/X 1/9 transmission without a complete redesign.

By 2000 (20+ years later), You'd think that the 'normal' box would be a five speed, and the 'bag hung on the side' would just be sixth gear. If the idea is to have a bearing in the middle of the shaft to avoid shaft deflection and allow use of a thinner/lighter shaft, the logical place to put it is between 3 and 4, not between 4 and 5.

It doesn't bug me, really, because it's obvious that the C5x and C6x family transmissions cope quite well with normal use within their design range, but it's obvious that nobody at Toyota has done a 'clean sheet of paper' FWD manual trans design in some time (decades?) or it wouldn't look like it does. Is this a bad thing? Hard to say.
 

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I have found the C6x box fairly easy to R&R. Like Fred said, the trick is getting the sixth gear off because grabbing the gear wrong will crack it and you'll be spending several hundred dollars getting a new one if you want the Lotus ratio. There are only two snap rings that require pliers and they are pretty easy to do. The other C clips pop off with two small screw drivers and a small hammer.

As far as the design of the "Add On Gears", once you are adding one gear outside the standard case, what's the difference? Fiat is not the only manufacturer that added 5th gear outside the standard 4 speed box. I'm not sure the cost of putting a bearing support between 1-2 & 3-4 warranties it. You are still going to need a bearing between 3-4 & 5-6. It is only when torque loads outside of the original design spec that cause problems with shaft deflection. Lotus pushed the box to it limits and you can exceed these limits when you add track abuse.

Later,
Eldon
 

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Steelypip, The reason it is between 4/5 and not 3/4 is that each shift hub/fork assembly services 2 gears. 1/2 on the output shaft, then 3/4 on the input shaft. Then 5/6 on the otherside in the top case. The C56 which is 5 speed has just 5th outside as does the E153. This is the typical design in all modern 2 shaft transverse gearboxes I am aware of. In some older Civic gear boxes for drag racing, people would remove 3rd and replace with a bearing "handcuff" to hold the shafts together, then re-do 4th and 5th resulting in a super-strong 4 speed.
 

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To play devil’s advocate, unless you are planning big power and want to beef up your existing transmission gears and synchros, you are better off buying a used transmission (they can be had on Lotustalk for less than $1000).

When I bought my Exige I had the exact same issue with weak 3rd gear synchro. I purchased a used low mileage c64 transmission from a forum member and followed this write up and it was actually an enjoyable job : Replacing the Clutch on a Lotus Elise

As long as you have the right tools it’s definitely DIY friendly. The most difficult job I’ve done on a car before this was changing suspension coilovers.




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