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Most of the information in this article is already known and not really news. What the article did accomplish is to restate everything in an inclusive manner.

In regard to the last line, I interpret that as the usual journalistic need to provide some kind of contraversy. Never since the DRB takeover has there been any public statements of selling the company or parts of the company off to the Chinese (I am not saying it isn't the plan, I am just pointing out that the source is media speculation rather than the company itself).

THe most worrying thing about the article is that 200 of the 270 Million in loan deal has been spent and for what? Even it Dany's Esprit is done, it took the majority of his proposed budget. I think the speculation that Dany was trying to make the company fail so he could get a big payout when it sold may very well be true. And given those figures it seems that DRB was well justified in sacking him.
 

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THe most worrying thing about the article is that 200 of the 270 Million in loan deal has been spent and for what? I think the speculation that Dany was trying to make the company fail so he could get a big payout when it sold may very well be true. And given those figures it seems that DRB was well justified in sacking him.
What was the bulk of the money spent on indeed besides the obvious , marketing , publicity and Dany Bahars lifestyle?

Reports were coming out of Lotus at least a year before Bahar was sacked by DRB that quite a few suppliers were not being paid, so the money was not going to pay the basic bills for materials to build automobiles.

I think the "plan" was designed as a win-win for those executives (Proton and Lotus) involved at the top, money could be siphoned out or kicked back via willing suppliers whilst the plan was in operation so If the "plan" was a success or a failure those involved at a high level would financially benefit.

The only real evidence of the above would be known as a result of the forensic audit of Group Lotus commissioned by DRB, and I doubt they will ever reveal anything as If a con job comes to light it will jepardise any future loans to Group Lotus (from Malaysian Banks at least).
 

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Guys, it's not a con job for senior staff or company owners to win big regardless of the success of the company. It's fully legal. Not saying i support it for one second, but it's just like the Baine capital and Romney thing... same deal, the owners and senior staff are set-up to win regardless. There was an article in Rolling Stone about it. Sure you have to read between the politics junk since it's a magazine, but the article still has a fair amount of interesting information on how the system is "legitimately" worked and gamed. I really don't want to start a politics debate, my point is not to bring politics into this... it's just that i recently read the article, and i found it informative on how the companyies can operate within the law... it was intersting despite the fact that the background to the article was political.
 

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Most of the information in this article is already known and not really news. What the article did accomplish is to restate everything in an inclusive manner.

In regard to the last line, I interpret that as the usual journalistic need to provide some kind of contraversy. Never since the DRB takeover has there been any public statements of selling the company or parts of the company off to the Chinese (I am not saying it isn't the plan, I am just pointing out that the source is media speculation rather than the company itself).

THe most worrying thing about the article is that 200 of the 270 Million in loan deal has been spent and for what? Even it Dany's Esprit is done, it took the majority of his proposed budget. I think the speculation that Dany was trying to make the company fail so he could get a big payout when it sold may very well be true. And given those figures it seems that DRB was well justified in sacking him.

I noticed that your MY12 is built but not delivered. Is that right? As a potential customer for an ordered to spec MY13, this article does NOT give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
 

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Guys, it's not a con job for senior staff or company owners to win big regardless of the success of the company. It's fully legal. Not saying i support it for one second, but it's just like the Baine capital and Romney thing... same deal, the owners and senior staff are set-up to win regardless. There was an article in Rolling Stone about it. Sure you have to read between the politics junk since it's a magazine, but the article still has a fair amount of interesting information on how the system is "legitimately" worked and gamed. I really don't want to start a politics debate, my point is not to bring politics into this... it's just that i recently read the article, and i found it informative on how the companyies can operate within the law... it was intersting despite the fact that the background to the article was political.
Politics has nothing to do with it!! and leave my Romney out of this conversation he hasn't made a stupid comment in last 24 hours, what a fargen idiot this guy is.... Now for argument sake, if I hire you as the CEO of RENDERMAN entertainment Inc. for 3.5 mil unless I stipulate in the contract that if the company flops you only get $3K the whole amount is guaranteed that's why Bahar is so pissed, just look at the NFL, players are flopping all the time but still walk away with millions, of course conservatives make for better QB's (leaders) :D
 

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I noticed that your MY12 is built but not delivered. Is that right? As a potential customer for an ordered to spec MY13, this article does NOT give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.
My MY12 is going to be delivered as a MY 13. THey transitioned to MY 13 sometime during the Summer. Cars already ordered but not built in MY12 production become MY13. MIne is built as of mid August, but not yet delivered. Getting information from Lotus on your custom ordered car is like pulling teeth. Don't bother asking how I even have information about mine.

Cars are in production. If you have ordered one you will likely have to wait 6 months for it. I ordered mine April 5 (the day I put my deposit down) and still not here (though I suspect delivery is imminent). Other people I know or have heard about first hand have had similar wait times.
 

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Very worrying. Not one iota of reassuring news these days.

I don't understand why some bloody German company like VW or BMW doesn't snap Lotus up. The cache of the Lotus brand is irresistible and a quarter billion is NOTHING for VW. Audi alone dropped 1 billion on Ducati, didn't they? On what, a vanity project.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
There are issues and arguments on both sides.

$250M is a lot of money. There's no amount of home repairs, jet charters, etc. that could add up to that in the short time Dany was in charge, so it seems disingenous to assume it was all his fault. Not absolving the captain of the ship, but the crew and the admiralty were not novices, nor were the bankers who bought the ships and provisioned them.

Why would VW or anyone buy now when they can buy out of bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar. If they buy now, they buy debt. Why not let that get wiped off the books first. I'll answer my own question here: because there would be damage to the brand, to supplier relationships (probably not a real issue; if you're VW you can coerce the suppliers back into line); loss of intellectual property - this one feels real. It's not that the big boys don't have great engineering departments, but the people that give Lotus the "feel" of Lotus won't be there.

On the other hand, it's a few thousand of us crazies versus 100,000+ and climbing Cayenne buyers. Who's right? What is the business case for Lotus?
 

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My MY12 is going to be delivered as a MY 13. THey transitioned to MY 13 sometime during the Summer. Cars already ordered but not built in MY12 production become MY13. MIne is built as of mid August, but not yet delivered. Getting information from Lotus on your custom ordered car is like pulling teeth. Don't bother asking how I even have information about mine.

Cars are in production. If you have ordered one you will likely have to wait 6 months for it. I ordered mine April 5 (the day I put my deposit down) and still not here (though I suspect delivery is imminent). Other people I know or have heard about first hand have had similar wait times.
Ah yes, the wonderful Lotus customer service experience. That does sound lovely...........NOT! So if it's been built, why the $^#@ can't it be delivered already?

I was also hoping to try to visit mine when it's being built at Hethel if I end up ordering one, but from the sounds of it there's no way they're coordinated enough to be able to set up a factory tour when mine's on the line. What's your thoughts on that?

I swear.........this is just like dating a girl because of her looks and having to deal with the headaches. The things we do for ass..........and sexy cars.

:thwack:
 

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Ah yes, the wonderful Lotus customer service experience. That does sound lovely...........NOT! So if it's been built, why the $^#@ can't it be delivered already?

I was also hoping to try to visit mine when it's being built at Hethel if I end up ordering one, but from the sounds of it there's no way they're coordinated enough to be able to set up a factory tour when mine's on the line. What's your thoughts on that?

I swear.........this is just like dating a girl because of her looks and having to deal with the headaches. The things we do for ass..........and sexy cars.

:thwack:

My Deep Throat (excuse the political porn pun) was able to tell me a week before my car went into production. I went into a massive effort to get time off work and then arrange to go see the car in build and at the same time get the tour and see Classic Team Lotus etc. I damn near made it as well. Only problem was the Goddam Olympics which were going on at the time. They made it impossible to get there and back.

So if you can find out when it will be in build arring to go see it is very possible assuming you can make the trip on short notice.
 

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Very worrying. Not one iota of reassuring news these days.

I don't understand why some bloody German company like VW or BMW doesn't snap Lotus up. The cache of the Lotus brand is irresistible and a quarter billion is NOTHING for VW. Audi alone dropped 1 billion on Ducati, didn't they? On what, a vanity project.
It pains me to say it, having owned a bunch of Lotus of all vintage over the years...but I don't think the Lotus brand has all the cache now, in 2012, that many of us on here would like to think it has.

What would they get of value, really? Beyond Lotus engineering, that is. The Elige is a great niche car...nothing else like it on the road, but while it fascinates a lot of people the actual number of people who want to own them is fairly small. The Evora hasn't exactly been a resounding success, doesn't fair too well in many of the comparison tests I've seen.

Lotus has all but divorced itself from its racing heritage. A half hearted run at ALMS with an Evora, and leased its name to an otherwise unrelated F1 team.


Just trying to be realistic, here.
 

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Getting information from Lotus on your custom ordered car is like pulling teeth.
So true

I ordered mine April 5 (the day I put my deposit down) and still not here (though I suspect delivery is imminent). Other people I know or have heard about first hand have had similar wait times.
Not bad; I put down a deposit on an MY12 last May, build date December 18th 2011 and received February. And that was the 1st MY12 into US
 
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