The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I've searched for at least 2 straight hours now, so someone feel free to :thwack: me, if it's already been asked and answered. Sorry guys, but if so - I just can't find it! :shrug:

My Dealer is about 300 miles away. I would like to take my car to MY MECHANIC, who I trust, and who has personally maintained my Europeans (Jaguar) for years. Not because I am looking to either cheap out, or cut any corners. In fact quite the contrary/opposite! I pay my mechanic (a specialty/exotic and Jaguar -et al- factory certified specialist) top $ for the maintenance and SERVICE of my babies! It's not like Lotus PROVIDES the 1st "after sales service" either, anyway.:mad: So if I am going to have to (and be willing to) pay for it, I should be allowed to go ANYWHERE!

So anyway, I call him to set up my appointment today, and he is 100% confident he can do and handle absolutely everything. I can (and WILL) be there on-site, side-by-side as all work (he has specialty lifts, including soft-touch 4-point ...and has seen Q-Ball's car pic too!) is performed. He has called Lotus USA in Atlanta direct in fact, and obtained the entire tech's service punch-list for this car, and does have access to up-to-the-minute SB's etc. No problem. The only problem is this:

The ECU/Dump-print that we've seen of others cars at the 1k-1.5k 1st "dealer" after-sales service seems proprietary. He does have both EBDII and "CAN" module capability, but the trigger to release non-standard "code forzen/captive" info in that particular format looks like it is special-software required to obtain. Unless "provided by" (free of charge) by the dealer though doesn't Magnuson-Moss address (ie: preclude) this?? :confused:

So in short, pusuant to Magnuson-Moss (sp?) who can my shop call, or where can they go or get in contact with, to obtain the proprietary code or software language/polling codes or whatever it is to be able to trigger this print-out from the ECU (as seems to be required), and allow me to keep my waranty VALID with the service level meeting OR EXCEEDING that of any "dealers" - but being of MY CHOOSING - as is also supposedly allowed (required) by law?

Can anyone help?
THANKS!
-Grant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,985 Posts
Unless "provided by" (free of charge) by the dealer though doesn't Magnuson-Moss address (ie: preclude) this?? :confused:
Technically, yes. My understanding of how they work within the scope of the law is that the validating dump is free, regardless of whether or not you choose to have the rest of the service performed by the dealer. Therefore, they can require that it be done by the dealer since it is performed at no cost.

The device that records the dump is a Lotus-specific scan tool. I don't know if its operations can be duplicated through software.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Technically, yes. My understanding of how they work within the scope of the law is that the validating dump is free, regardless of whether or not you choose to have the rest of the service performed by the dealer. Therefore, they can require that it be done by the dealer since it is performed at no cost.

The device that records the dump is a Lotus-specific scan tool. I don't know if its operations can be duplicated through software.
I'll give Criswell a call then, and see if they will do this for me, and if you like, will keep you all informed as to how it goes. All I could get out of any of my prior dealer calls was how much they CHARGE for the 1st after-sales dealer service. No one had mentioned anywhere at all, that they could do it in any other way than just a total "package". Anyone else ever just had the ECU dump done for them as a "stand-alone"?

Thanks for the insight!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,786 Posts
From the Lotus service manual:

All USA market cars from '08 model year are required by legislation to use a CAN compliant on-board
diagnostic system. This has been commonised for all Elise/Exige models. The Lotus Scan 3 tool is replaced
by a 'stand alone' lap top PC loaded with 'Lotus Techcentre' software to allow the CAN based serial data to be
read. An '08 model year update kit T000T1494F will shortly be issued mandatorily to all dealers. The Vehicle
Communication Device (T000T1476F) introduced for the Europa model is used to connect the vehicle to the
laptop Lotus Techcentre. Engine programming, live data display, diagnostics of engine, ABS and airbag systems,
and service tell tale lamp resetting are all carried out via the Lotus Techcentre.
The minimum specification of the laptop for installation of the Lotus Techcentre is as follows:
Processer 1.70 Ghz
1 GB RAM
40 GB HDD
CDRW DVD ROM
WIN XP PRO
USB interface
Ethernet or Wireless LAN
Note that this laptop should be dedicated totally to the Lotus Techcentre, with no other software loaded.
I believe that this system is intended to be backward compatible (although I'm not 100% sure), so it would work with earlier Elise/Exige models. Of course, it seems you'll need the "The Vehicle Communication Device"... which I'm guessing provides a USB interface to the CANBUS...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,000 Posts
If its a pre 08 car, your mechanic needs to buy the Tech III tool, if 08+the laptop tool. Its quite common for OEM's to make specific scan tools like this, nearly all of them have such a device, its not an standard OBD II device, it uses the OEM extensions permitted in OBD II .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,786 Posts
If its a pre 08 car, your mechanic needs to buy the Tech III tool, if 08+the laptop tool. Its quite common for OEM's to make specific scan tools like this, nearly all of them have such a device, its not an standard OBD II device, it uses the OEM extensions permitted in OBD II .
Thanks for the correction, you're the man :bow:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
688 Posts
I had the ECU dump done as a stand alone. I did the 1000 mile service myself, and took the car to the dealer to have the dump done. They charged me $50 to do it, even though they should have done it for nothing, but I was OK with it. The mechanic needs to be paid, since Lotus I am sure won't pay. The important thing is that it was done and sent to Lotus for the records showing the car was broken in properly. :sad:

If you have it done somewhere else, it won't make it to Lotus to prove the car was properly broken in. I suggest paying a dealer for the download if it is a minor fee. Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,476 Posts
I'll give Criswell a call then, and see if they will do this for me, and if you like, will keep you all informed as to how it goes. All I could get out of any of my prior dealer calls was how much they CHARGE for the 1st after-sales dealer service. No one had mentioned anywhere at all, that they could do it in any other way than just a total "package". Anyone else ever just had the ECU dump done for them as a "stand-alone"?

Thanks for the insight!!
be prepared to be lubed for $3XX.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,000 Posts
Yeah i think you can buy it via a decent dealer but its really expensive and it doesn't do that much, plus i think lotus probably wants the print out from an actual dealer instead.

It does have the ABS flush thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I had the ECU dump done as a stand alone. I did the 1000 mile service myself, and took the car to the dealer to have the dump done. They charged me $50 to do it, even though they should have done it for nothing, but I was OK with it. The mechanic needs to be paid, since Lotus I am sure won't pay. The important thing is that it was done and sent to Lotus for the records showing the car was broken in properly. :sad:

If you have it done somewhere else, it won't make it to Lotus to prove the car was properly broken in. I suggest paying a dealer for the download if it is a minor fee. Just my 2 cents.
We're going to be in the same "boat" with our Exige. I'm planning on doing all the service myself except for any warrenty work. I'll only want to get the 10000 mile ECU dump, nothing else. If the local dealer closest to us won't only do this plus allow me to remain with the car during the process, I guess we'll have to figure something else.

Maybe we can get someone from FVMC to drive up to Minnesota a do it? :shrug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
THANKS ALL!

Thanks All, for the very informative replies!!

Here's my latest on all this:

Sports & Specialist Cars (my original selling dealer) will do the 1st After-Sales ENTIRE service, for $320. But they are @ 300miles away from me.

Criswell (Marty there) just quoted me $386 (odd #, but whatever...). They are closer, but still not what I would call "convenient". Plus, he says he is completely booked up THROUGH 4/28 before he could even think of getting to it for me.

So in essence really, 6 in one - a 1/2 dozen in the other. Like I've already stated previously, it is not really my intent to do the FULL 1st after-sales service at my dealer anyway. - And again, this is not just strictly a $$ play either. I am sure I will be paying "MY" local guy, probably about the same anyway ...but that should be MY CHOICE, right?

So here's the kicker. Marty at Criswell is fine with doing just the ECU dump and print out for me, no problem. Seemed really cool, and "down" with what I am doing entirely - and I really appreciate that. However...

NO WAY IN H*** ANY DEALER IS GONNA "GIVE" YOU A FREE ECU DUMP PRINT-OUT, AT NO CHARGE. YOU'RE USING AT LEAST AN HOUR OF A TECH'S TIME TO DO THIS AND (Pete K is right...) LOTUS SURE AINT PAYING FOR IT!
So the bottom line (and price-quote) for just the ECU Dump and print-out requirement? $96 at Criswell, which is now what I suppose it is, I am gonna do. Additionally, if I show up on his doorstep, any weekday that they are "just opening up" (7:45-8:00AM) - he can pretty much hook the car up, and get JUST this much done for me, straight-away, within the hour.

You gotta do what you gotta do, to protect not only just the best interests of your car itself (which I believe I am doing), but the factory warranty that goes along with it as well - just to be safe, right?

If my mechanic (already factory certified by Jaguar, Porsche, Audi, VW, Bentley and others) wants to pursue becoming also perhaps Lotus Factory Certified as well - does anyone know how he might actually go about doing something like that?

Thanks again guys, for all the extremely informative replies to this!!
And I didn't even draw one "search :thwack:" from even the indubitable ace10 - who actually rather I think, provided probably (along with apk919 and Charliex) the most useful responses of all! :bow: So - THANK YOU, ace! :clap: et al....

Cheers all,
-Grant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,000 Posts
They have to go on the lotus training course in GA to get certified I believe, not sure if you have to be attached to a certified dealer or not.

Best to contact Lotus USA in Georgia.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
So the bottom line (and price-quote) for just the ECU Dump and print-out requirement? $96 at Criswell, which is now what I suppose it is, I am gonna do. Additionally, if I show up on his doorstep, any weekday that they are "just opening up" (7:45-8:00AM) - he can pretty much hook the car up, and get JUST this much done for me, straight-away, within the hour.

You gotta do what you gotta do, to protect not only just the best interests of your car itself (which I believe I am doing), but the factory warranty that goes along with it as well - just to be safe, right?
Let me know how this goes, I'm actually going to have my 10k ECU dump done soon, and they would be my first choice to goto.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,315 Posts
The mechanic needs to be paid, since Lotus I am sure won't pay.
Pete, are you sure about that? Our SoCal dealers might try to gouge us, but my experience says that if the warranty requires the inspection, it is covered under warranty. My two other vehicles were covered by their dealers. I paid Symbolic for 1st service but I also came in with a punch list of warranty claim items that were not caught in PDI.

Going to a dealer other than where you purchased the car, might be different unless they mistakenly think they will get some follow-on service business.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Update, and NOTICE to other '08 owners out there

Pete, are you sure about that? Our SoCal dealers might try to gouge us, but my experience says that if the warranty requires the inspection, it is covered under warranty. My two other vehicles were covered by their dealers. I paid Symbolic for 1st service but I also came in with a punch list of warranty claim items that were not caught in PDI.

Going to a dealer other than where you purchased the car, might be different unless they mistakenly think they will get some follow-on service business.
No, Pete is absolutely correct. Even my original selling dealer stated a price for the service. Again, the reason? - The shop/tech needs to get paid and Lotus USA DOES NOT PAY FOR THIS!

Now, I did a little more research into this, simply because it seems counter to Magnuson-Moss, intuitively. However, they do have a "loophole". There is a clause in there that states simply that they need to make any 'proprietary' scan tools, software, code - etc. "available" to non-dealer shops. Technically, they do (Thank you ace10 again, for the link). However, ...and here is the big however! - Anyone care to guess how much it costs, or they will charge a NON-LOTUS dealership shop? :crazyeyes

Uh-huh. There's your kicker, folks.

Now for an update as to my situation. I brought my car (an '08 Exige S) down to Criswell this morning as outlined earlier above. I must say that Marty there with me in every aspect - was absolutely top notch! Checks in the car, just like he said he would (I was waiting for them by the door at 8AM as stipulated) - and "sets me right up". First in line :coolnana: ...We'll have it done for you right here, in less than an hour, and yes - I can hang pretty much right there, "with" my car (it is portable equipment they bring to it, to get this item ONLY done).

I decide to have a seat in their lounge (right off the Hummer showroom, and amongst all their "upscale" soccer-mom/hummer owners doing the same), and my only complaint is that there was no fresh coffee made. :sad:

So, Marty hooks my car up I see, and then leaves for a while. Right about the time one of the Junior tech's comes in and starts making coffee for everyone (me and 2 soccer-moms) I was just about to walk across their parking lot to a McD's on the corner, Marty comes in and announces:

"You're off the hook"
Huh? :confused: :shrug:

It seems that the current scantool equipment, currently out in even the dealers shops CAN NOT READ / DUMP / PRINT THE NEW '08s!!

Marty calls Lotus direct to see if there is a problem. "No Problem" they say. Simply just that they have not put out yet, their NEW MODULE, THAT WILL BE REQUIRED TO READ / DO THE '08s is all :wallbang:

So in essence, at least until further notice, it seems there is defacto:
"NO FACTORY ECU DUMP/PRINTS REQUIRED FOR THE '08s!"
So Marty gives me a service receipt print out, to in writing VALIDATE this, and that I did bring my car in, within time/scope - and that ALONE now "certifies my warranty", and satisfies "requirement". Only an hour or so out of my time, and really, not a bad drive/seat time down some of Howard County & Montgomery Counties finest back roads to get there too.

And the icing on the cake? - NO CHARGE! Just a very nice friendly thanks for coming by, sharing with us your car, and we hope that you will consider us for any future Lotus service needs you may have.

I certainly will!

Good thing I did not drive all the way up to NJ only to find this out! You would think that Lotus USA would at least inform their dealer shops of this in advance as well - as apparently even THEY do not know this! TADTS Until like me, their 1st '08 driver comes in, gets hooked up, and gets in essence the blank screen that they did to find out! I wonder how much additional $$ Lotus will now be charging their dealers for this yet again - ANOTHER new module, whenever it does finally come out - and further, when that is going to be?

In the meantime folks - at least you new '08 owners who may be out there in similar position ...Break 'em in any way YOU want 'em. :shift: Seems at least for now (so long as you can get that 1st 1k under your belts before this new module releases) you've got a "free pass"! :cool::rolleyes:

I broke mine in otherwise, right to the letter of "the law" (the owners manual) under this big looming "threat".

Had I only known, I might have used one of the other methods mentioned elsewhere around these boards instead. :mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,314 Posts
We're going to be in the same "boat" with our Exige. I'm planning on doing all the service myself except for any warrenty work. I'll only want to get the 10000 mile ECU dump, nothing else. If the local dealer closest to us won't only do this plus allow me to remain with the car during the process, I guess we'll have to figure something else.

Maybe we can get someone from FVMC to drive up to Minnesota a do it? :shrug:


maybe if you got a group together for a saturday drive on a date i might be available to meet halfway. i live close to the il, wisconsin border in a town called crystal lake. i could bring a scan tool and do ECU dumps or code read outs. unfortunatly it would not be a place for diagnosis or repair. and i could only do print outs for 05-07 unless someone brought a portable lap top printer. let me know if this is something you all in minnisota or wisconsin might like to do, and i will see when i am available. keep in mind i can't do this all of the time so the largewr the group the better for all of you.:up:

T.J.
FVMC technician
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top