Is anyone else who ordered LSS just a little bit pissed. I'm number #1 in Boston with almost 2yrs invested to date. My patience has worn really thin. I didn't think twice when the delivery date was pushed back twice but now to sit by while other people take delivery because Lotus doesn't have their act together is just too much. There are no excuses. Not one LSS car is ready? What is Hethel's problem? It's not just the popularity of the option. There is undoubtedly a more serious scew-up involved. Lotus you need to make amends to your most dedicated enthusiasts.
LSS orders / Free Clear Bra
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Most car companies sell the more pedestrian version of their "all new model" for a while before even offering the "track or sport" version. This is done to boost sales as they start to decline in the life of a peticular model or series. I still applaud Lotus for "giving us the option" and will wait what ever time it takes for them to bevieve the "sport pack" cars are ready to be produced.
After all this is a relatively small car company we are dealing with...
Laser Blue LSS only!
After all this is a relatively small car company we are dealing with...
Laser Blue LSS only!
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I think you need to relax and deal. Lotus is doing their best, **** happens.
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As Randy's said, they totally miscalculated just how many people would opt for the sport pak, consequently the component company was probably having problems meeting these increased requirements. Think you've got to be fair with Lotus in that they aren't just slapping cars together to get them here, only to have new owners screaming bloody murder because of faults.
These delays will really only affect the first few months customers, should level out in the long run. Doesn't make it easier but just hang in their, after 2.5 years a few weeks one way or the other won't kill me.
Chris
These delays will really only affect the first few months customers, should level out in the long run. Doesn't make it easier but just hang in their, after 2.5 years a few weeks one way or the other won't kill me.
Chris
The only real major mistake I see that happened is Lotus took deposits way too soon. No one should ever have to wait for 2 years for a car while having their money tied up at a dealership. They should've made deposits $500 in that case. Deposits really should've been calculated to be taken no more than a year out. As we all can see it's driving some of us mad :crazyeyes
Other than that I'm still drooling for the day my car arrives.
Other than that I'm still drooling for the day my car arrives.
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Well, actually Lotus cars had no control over if/when deposits were taken, that was totally controlled by the dealer.
The false start in late 01 when the car was announced as coming to the US was when the lists at many dealers first started. Proton had wanted to get 100% ownership of Lotus before they comitted the resources to making this happen (ie getting Artioli out of the way). This took a bit of time. I'm glad the dealers started taking deposits so long ago, those of us who were there in the beginning, the wait is almost over
Chris
The false start in late 01 when the car was announced as coming to the US was when the lists at many dealers first started. Proton had wanted to get 100% ownership of Lotus before they comitted the resources to making this happen (ie getting Artioli out of the way). This took a bit of time. I'm glad the dealers started taking deposits so long ago, those of us who were there in the beginning, the wait is almost over
Chris
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The main mistake was an error in market analysis. As I keep mentioning, it was pretty obvious over a year ago that there were going to be a lot of LSS orders, way over the 300 prejected by Lotus UK who only saw LSS as something a true die-hard track only person would order.
Oh well.. I am a little frustrated too. My car is number one on the dealer's list, I have waited longer than most, and because it's LSS, it will not be here soon. And because it's not here soon, getting the car classed in SCCA will be delayed, and may impact my ability to take the car to SCCA nationals... and how well prepared it is. And because I told them over a year ago that the 300 number was nowhere close, but I do understand that there is no reason they should have listened to me.
However... things will even out. We will get our cars. I am not too worried.
Oh well.. I am a little frustrated too. My car is number one on the dealer's list, I have waited longer than most, and because it's LSS, it will not be here soon. And because it's not here soon, getting the car classed in SCCA will be delayed, and may impact my ability to take the car to SCCA nationals... and how well prepared it is. And because I told them over a year ago that the 300 number was nowhere close, but I do understand that there is no reason they should have listened to me.
However... things will even out. We will get our cars. I am not too worried.
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Oh, did you bring this to the party so we'd have something to go with the whine?atyclb said:![]()
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amcmahon said:
Lotus isn't taking the deposits. The dealers are. I've had a deposit for 4 years. Lotus didn't tell my dealer to start taking deposits 4-5 years ago.
In fact, if I'm not mistaken, I thought I read 4-5 months ago here that Lotus actually discouraged the idea of dealers taking deposits. No doubt to avoid situations like this.
My view is, if you put a deposit to purchase something that is already available and "in stock", one has every right to complain if it does not arrive in a timely fashion.
If the product is brand new and has never been produced before - any consumer should know they are taking their chances. This is the way it is with practically every "enthusiast" good - stereo equipment, motorcycles, plastic model kits, comic books, computer software, Harry Potter books - you name it.
In December Lotus was up-front in saying they thought they'd only sell 300 or so LSS packages. They were wrong, but it's not like they made that a secret. The answer is always my mantra - it's a free market, if you don't like it, you must express your "vote" by not buying it.
DLY
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Brie is good. :clap:atyclb said:![]()
Something about the LSS-thing still does quite add up for me. I fully understand the bad market analysis and that they way under estimated the desire. IF the case was that LSS cars are coming in slowly that would make sense. But ZERO cars "seems" like there is another issue involved. Even at a 300 unit estimate, you'd think they'd have ~20 sets ready at launch and fitting a 20-unit LSS build seems plausible based on their production process. But it's not "20 and then slow after that", it's ZERO.
I can live with it. I'm #15 and would like it as soon as possible, but being in LA means that I can drive it all year long so I'm not too upset.
But...... the whole thing still seems a little fishy to me
I can live with it. I'm #15 and would like it as soon as possible, but being in LA means that I can drive it all year long so I'm not too upset.
But...... the whole thing still seems a little fishy to me
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There may be a little more to it. I heard something about an anodizing problem at the supplier. Not sure about that though.
If the supplier was only going to provide 300 sets in 12 months, that also might include a ramp up process, so more of the sets came later. In any case, that is only 25 cars per month.
I think most dealer demos included LSS, even though they were asked by Lotus to not get LSS. I do not know how many dealer demo cars included LSS..but that could have taken up the rim allocation.
If there is anything else holding up LSS, I have not heard about it.
I would be happy to get my car on cinder blocks. Send the wheels later.
If the supplier was only going to provide 300 sets in 12 months, that also might include a ramp up process, so more of the sets came later. In any case, that is only 25 cars per month.
I think most dealer demos included LSS, even though they were asked by Lotus to not get LSS. I do not know how many dealer demo cars included LSS..but that could have taken up the rim allocation.
If there is anything else holding up LSS, I have not heard about it.
I would be happy to get my car on cinder blocks. Send the wheels later.
My point exactly about NO LSS cars. They could certainly have met the initial orders if it was merely a miscalculation. Something else is up and we are not getting the scoop. That is what is frustrating. August will come and go and if the actual problem isn't worked out there will be more delays. Give me my car I'll take it without LSS.
Keep in mind that Lotus is a very, very small company by most standards, let alone the standards of the auto industry.
That can be great, like when I have a question and can get through to someone at the factory who actually had a hand in designing the thing and not only knows what he is talking about but is happy to help out. Try that with any other car company, including BMW and Porsche (well maybe Ferrari).
On the other hand it means they don't have anywhere near the polish you may be used to particularly from Honda etc.
Buying and owning a Lotus is an experience much closer to buying a race car than buying just about any other production vehicle. So unless you reset your desires and expectations you are going to be very disappointed.
It isn't that anyone is wrong or right. Lotus is what it is and you either understand and decide the tradeoff are ok with you or you should pass.
This is not to make excuses for Lotus. Perhaps they should just come out and say something like "hey, we're little and this is what it means." It probably would be better for them (everyone in the UK knows what it means and they buy the cars anyway) but I wouldn't hold my breath. But unless you just want to make yourself miserable you should think long and hard about what you are literally buying into and make sure you are ok with it.
The Elise, particularly the S2 is far and away the best built, most reliable car Lotus has every built but compared to almost anything else out there on the road it is still completely unrefined. I would expect the systems behind the car to be similiarly basic.
The people who design, build, sell and service this car are car nuts. They love what they are doing, but they aren't alway focused on creating smooth systems. I have never felt I would be hung out to dry in my dealings with Lotus, but often found myself confronted with the effects of a small organization.
Lotus is more like a bunch of craftsman (think of a guy in Maine who builds you a hand made guitar) rather than a real car company (heaven knows they don't ever turn a profit like one). If you are cool with that, great, but if not there are other options that would be a much better fit.
That can be great, like when I have a question and can get through to someone at the factory who actually had a hand in designing the thing and not only knows what he is talking about but is happy to help out. Try that with any other car company, including BMW and Porsche (well maybe Ferrari).
On the other hand it means they don't have anywhere near the polish you may be used to particularly from Honda etc.
Buying and owning a Lotus is an experience much closer to buying a race car than buying just about any other production vehicle. So unless you reset your desires and expectations you are going to be very disappointed.
It isn't that anyone is wrong or right. Lotus is what it is and you either understand and decide the tradeoff are ok with you or you should pass.
This is not to make excuses for Lotus. Perhaps they should just come out and say something like "hey, we're little and this is what it means." It probably would be better for them (everyone in the UK knows what it means and they buy the cars anyway) but I wouldn't hold my breath. But unless you just want to make yourself miserable you should think long and hard about what you are literally buying into and make sure you are ok with it.
The Elise, particularly the S2 is far and away the best built, most reliable car Lotus has every built but compared to almost anything else out there on the road it is still completely unrefined. I would expect the systems behind the car to be similiarly basic.
The people who design, build, sell and service this car are car nuts. They love what they are doing, but they aren't alway focused on creating smooth systems. I have never felt I would be hung out to dry in my dealings with Lotus, but often found myself confronted with the effects of a small organization.
Lotus is more like a bunch of craftsman (think of a guy in Maine who builds you a hand made guitar) rather than a real car company (heaven knows they don't ever turn a profit like one). If you are cool with that, great, but if not there are other options that would be a much better fit.
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