[smoseley]

Picking out my options...

I'm getting Saffron Yellow w/ Hard Top and.......


and......


hmm....


I'm thinking... what "personality" do I want my Elise to have?

Touring is... like... nice and pretty... but I'm worried about Lotus' electrical systems. I think power windows MIGHT be nice (girls certainly won't be impressed by the rollers) but this is a big HMMMM... also, touring is a bit "cushy" for a Lotus. I'm not buying a Lotus to get a spongemobile.

LSS would be awesome, too! Better performance AND cool looking wheels. But I'm wondering HOW MUCH harder the ride will be? I don't think LSS will make a difference like between a cushy, every-day Elise and a go kart Elise. So right now, I'm like "why not?" I'm not going to race competitively... but LSS is like "I'm a LOTUS, damnit!"


So there's my dilemma. I don't want LSS AND Touring. I think they are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED OPTIONS. Getting both would be a waste of $4k - you lose the essence of each by having both.

ACK!!!

I was dead-set on getting LSS, but a few people have been making me think Touring might suit my needs better. But I'm afraid of being that "Touring Pack Guy" - you know, the middle-aged one-step-from-a-corvette guy. If I were getting a BRG, I could justify the Touring Pack for the biscuit leather color combo (yummy), but I'm not. I'm getting SY! Black cloth would look hot in this baby!



What do I do !!!!!????

(Long wait + ADHD = veritable insanity)

 

[Randy Chase]

Hey ADHD-Boy...

I don't think they are opposed, they just seem that way. I got both.

The Touring is not that cushy and the Sport is not that severe. In fact, I would throw out those perceptions of them.

Get Touring because you want leather, or a colored leather. Or because you like the cargo net and MP3 player. Get it because it has something you don't want to bother to upgrade. You will not get a "cushier" car with it. It will still ride the same, sound very much the same, and drive the same. Just make this decision based on if you want those features and if they are worth the cost to have the car come with them from the factory.

That decision stands alone.

Then decide if you want Sport. As posted many times, if you want a more track oriented vehicle, get the Sport. But there are some downsides. Faster wearing tires. More oversteer to be aware of. That 1/4" lower height makes a lot of difference in avoiding scraping the driveways and such.

I don't think the ride is really that much more brutal. We are only discussing a matter of degree and if the ride is brutal in the LSS car, it was probably 95% as brutal in the non-LSS car.

Get Sport if you really like those rims, but be aware they are a pain to keep clean.

Knowing what little I know about you, my recommendation is to not get Sport (you can upgrade any of it later) and to get Touring.

 

[TripleBlack_NJ]

What would be the point of having an Elise with anything referred to as "touring?" That would be like extra fudge on fat-free ice cream.

Anyway I have the LSS and the car is way too soft for my tastes. The spings are pretty firm, but the shock dampening is very conservative in my opininion. Not a hint of harshness. If the ride of an STi or an S2000 if fine for you, I'm sure you could handle the LSS.

 

[smoseley]

Knowing what little I know about you, my recommendation is to not get Sport (you can upgrade any of it later) and to get Touring.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You think I'm a middle-aged one-step-from-a-corvette guy!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vantage]

Knowing what little I know about you, my recommendation is to not get Sport (you can upgrade any of it later) and to get Touring.

Ding. :up:

There is some kind of perception that non-sport is for wussies, etc, etc. I think a lot of people believe that if they don't get sport, that they will be disappointed. I can't say if that will be true or not for you, but most people will like the sport pack because of the sticky tires that helps them go faster despite their driving...until the rear comes around. Just be careful if you order the package and understand the compromises the tire choice imposes upon you.

 

[smoseley]

If the ride of an STi or an S2000 if fine for you, I'm sure you could handle the LSS.

I drove an S2000 for 3 years and it was gravy. I have shocks on my SUV right now that are a stiffer ride than an S2000. It's a bit disconcerting driving over road construction and having Mozart interrupted by clamber-BANG-squeek-rumble-BANG!!! but the ride isn't an issue for me.

 

[offroadr35]

if you want leather seats, elec windows and the better top then get the touring pack. Everything else is basically the same and/or not important.

I would stay away from the sport pack. It is too much of a compromise set up. If you want a street setup then stick with the touring. If you want a track set up you will be much better off with aftermarket shocks and wheels.

 

[smoseley]

most people will like the sport pack because of the sticky tires that makes them think they are a better driver

Honestly, this is a part of my reason for wanting it. Don't you think you could avoid an accident better with LSS? I totalled my BMW trying to avoid an accident (lost the rear-end and smashed into a palm tree). Wouldn't want the same thing to happen again.

^^^^ Totalled.

 

[offroadr35]

Honestly, this is a part of my reason for wanting it. Don't you think you could avoid an accident better with LSS? I totalled my BMW trying to avoid an accident (lost the rear-end and smashed into a palm tree). Wouldn't want the same thing to happen again.

absolutely not. you have a much better chance of that happening again WITH the sport package than without.

 

[Randy Chase]

I guarantee that the chance of you (or anyone) having a sudden oversteer problem is much increased with LSS. The standard Elise just has gobs of ability. Just because LSS exists, does not make the non-LSS a less capable car for 98% of the owners.

I never thought of you as middle aged.

 

[smoseley]

Ok, so lemme get this straight... if I have to make a sudden adjustment in driving to avoid another car, the LSS is gonna make my rear-end come loose? For some reason I thought the rear-end was set unless you gassed it for controlled oversteer? I mean, in high-velocity driving, wouldn't the stickier tires give better control overall?

 

[smoseley]

I never thought of you as middle aged.

ACK !!! But a corvette guy!!! What was it? The Viper thread that did me in?

 

[Vantage]

Not necessarily. Did the rear end come around? The LSS makes it more likely for the same situation to happen again. With either package, the driver should be aware of oversteer. However, if you feel you could not handle the situation in the M coupe, then what makes you think you can handle it in the Lotus? Not trying to disuade you from the sport pack, but am merely posing legitimate questions. Then again, you could end up panicking, have a knee jerk reaction to rip the wheel to one direction, and you'll get understeer. In this regard, the base package may be a bit less dynamic at the limits. However, a lot of the LSS benefit comes when the tires are warmed up. They are not going to work at 100% until they get some heat into them.

I think what Randy may be insinuating is the situation of people getting LSS because it is perceived as better and more towards the goal of ultimate handling. Are you going to track your car? I've seen Florida and I couldn't find any curvy roads. The LSS package somewhat goes to waste on a purely road car. Many Lotus officials have said this, when they would otherwise want you to buy as many options as possible. As Ivor put it at dinner last night - just take a look at the kinds of things professional drivers can do with the standard suspension. It was enough for him and he didn't feel the sport pack added anything of value from this perspective. On the other hand, some people may find that they need more grip and more handling, either because they use the base package inefficiently, think it will provide more fun, or need the extra performance.

Any reason is legitimate.

 

[Randy Chase]

Cars have certain handling characteristics where they are tuned for understeer or oversteer.

Stickier tires are better, but it is important what the handling balance is.

Yes, a sudden adjustment in the LSS car will tend to create oversteer and that means the back end will come around. And not just a sudden adjustment, but the more common scenario of taking a curve to fast... or something changes the grip... or you hit the brakes or lift quickly off the gas. All of those things will cause oversteer.

Oversteer in a midengined car can be catastrophic.

We put even stickier Hoosiers on the car and I think we were having more trouble because the balance became messed up. Wider fronts only created more oversteer.

 

[Vantage]

Ok, so lemme get this straight... if I have to make a sudden adjustment in driving to avoid another car, the LSS is gonna make my rear-end come loose? For some reason I thought the rear-end was set unless you gassed it for controlled oversteer? I mean, in high-velocity driving, wouldn't the stickier tires give better control overall?

You are referring to power on oversteer, but there are plently of other opportunities to get oversteer.

It all depends on your inputs. You should read up on weight transfer and Randy's thread on midengine driving. If the car has been committed to a certain line in a corner, and you suddently lift, you could very possible get a snap oversteer situation. Just last night, Khamai was telling me how he just let off the throttle a little bit at the track, and the back end came around. It was also his first lap and the tires were not yet warm. You cannot just push the car to its limits straight away.

On the other hand, if you drive like Jeremy Clarkson and keep addding steering input, and then wonder when the car isn't turning in, they you will enter terminal understeer.

You just have to be aware. You should try to brake in a straight when pushing it, until you learn more about how to control trail braking, and accelerate through corners instead of thinking to lift in a panick situation. It can get you in trouble.

I'm not a driving expert, but those are a few things I think about when getting into an Elise.

Edit: I could be totally wrong here, but this is how it makes sense to me, so feel free to oppose.

 

[zvezdah1]

Steve,
My personal opinion FWIW. Don't see the need for LSS on a car driving specifically on the street, I guess it carries a certain amount of cool points to say you have it. A couple people who did buy the LSS equipped car were very disappointed in the stout ride (one guy was in NJ - posted his thoughts on PSC.)

Some real downsides I see to the LSS:

On concrete hiways the wheels tend to roar, I'm talking loud! Having driven around behind a couple (one with ssr wheels and one with lss). Also from watching the two different suspension cars, the LSS seems to be just a bit twitchier on hiways. And of course you have the stiffer ride. Also the longevity of the A048s(although it doesn't seem as bad as a lot of people thought - talked with the Yoko tech at LOG they didn't have any data on how many miles you'd get out of a set).

Anyway, my opinions, not to mention the additional cost.

NO flames please from LSS present/future owners!

Chris

 

[Stan]

The touring suspension is sportier than the sport suspension on most cars. The LSS is good for an easy street driveable option for someone who does track days.

From the nature of your questions it sounds like the touring suspension might be best for you. Note that at autocross driving events this setup is basically tied with ZO6 Vettes if both just arrive and drive. It's not slow, cushy, or held back or whatever.

I can't think of another car that can beat an Elise at arrive and drive autocrossing if you have the LSS package. That is, true as-delivered cars. But remember that Autocross is about 80% driver and 20% car. So a better driver in an LTS Elise can easily beat an average one in the LSS version.

It's also simple to convert either suspension to the other. As Chris mentioned the LSS tires are loud. You can hear them on the highway over the wind noise. Not horribly as this is already a loud car but I certainly noticed it when I went from LTS to LSS tires. The LSS tires are much less compliant over certain types of fast bumps...like concrete highway expansion joints. Yet at the same time the lighter wheels help other aspects of the ride quality.

Someone wanting the best riding Elise could run the LTS car with light wheels such as LSS or SSR and then use decent street tires known for their ride characteristics + performance such as the Toyo T1S.

 

[GatorFL]

Transio,

FWIW I think I'll be ordering a car with LSS just to get those sweet wheels. Touring is MANDATORY for me--leather suits my needs over cloth anyday. I don't think a HT is necessary in South FL. Then again, this will be a "weekend" car for me.

Just my .02...

 

[shinoo]

Skip the LSS. The standard suspension is going to be fine for your needs. Powder coat your stock wheels black for a more wicked look. Besides you don't have any curves in Miami, do you?

 

[OneFastLotus]

Transio,

FWIW. Im used to front engined rear wheel drive cars. I'm pretty comfortable driving with the rear end stepping out on me and adept at tucking it back it.

I was a little concerned going to the mid engined car, what will happen when the rear end kicks out?

At my first autocross in the car I got a little wild throwing the car through a Chicago box and the rear end starting coming around. Much to my delight, rather than totally spinning out I was able to correct the situation and didnt spin or go off course. Im now much more comfortable with how a mid engined car lets go. I was expecting it to really shove hard and come around like a freight train. It wasnt too hard to get it back under control IMHO.


I have LSS....I think if I had it to do all over again I would forego the LSS and the touring and get a bone base model car. I dont care about the radio. The seats are nice, but I think the cloth will be fine too. The carpeting doesnt matter to me. I DO like the stock LSS wheels, but there are plenty of nice aftermarket wheels now from Shinoo etc.

Our second car is just that, bone stock. I'll be able to make more back to back comparisons soon. The only thing I regret not ordering on the second car is the hardtop. I like hardtops.

I think you cant go wrong. If you get anything I think you'd appreciate the touring option the most.