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Discussion Starter #1
Mosley: "The sport could survive without Ferrari"
02 May 2009


Max Mosley insists that Formula One could continue without Ferrari, after the Italian team heavily questioned the FIA's new budget cap initiative. From 2010, the governing body is proposing a £30m spending limit for teams although the constructors' World Champions were quick to disagree with the idea, claiming that a gradual decreasing of the figure would be more suitable.

The Italian team, which currently receives a greater share of Formula One's revenues for historical reasons, prides itself on being the only constructor in the field to have been present in Formula One since the inauguration of the World Championship in 1950. With a global financial crisis in full swing and set to hit F1 more, however, Mosley was firm with his comments.

"The sport could survive without Ferrari," he told The Financial Times. "It would be very, very sad to lose Ferrari, it is the Italian national team; I hope and think that when a team goes to its board and says, 'I want to go to war with the FIA, because I want to be able to spend 100 million pounds more than the FIA want me to spend,' then the board will say, 'Why can't you spend 40 million pounds if the other teams can do it?'"

The budget cap, first suggested by Mosley at a figure of £30m, is designed to both sustain the future of current competitors and the sport as a whole as well as encouraging new teams to enter Formula One and boost the starting line-up to 26 cars. "We've got very little room to negotiate," the FIA president continued, "but the message I'm getting from the board of two or three of the manufacturers is: 'If you can get it so that the cheque we write is not more than €25m (£22.3m), you can consider this a pretty permanent arrangement.'

"We have contacts with the boards other than through the teams. The teams spin to the board. The chief executive hasn't got the time, knowledge or expertise to question it. But now, to throw away tens of millions on F1 is not acceptable; it's our fault, allowing the sport to develop where refinement was the means of progress rather than innovation, but we must plan for the possibility that it won't."

Mosley concluded that the sport is remains likely to be hit more heavily by the credit crunch, in the event of large sponsors being affected, but also stressed again that the budget cap is "here to stay".
 

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Max Mosley not likely to go

The removal of Max Mosley seems a bit remote right now. He is a smart politician and an Attorney by trade, he will be a formidable litigator for as long as he has Bernie Ecclestone’s support. Also, at this very moment, a successor does not appear to be clearly in place. I believe that Jean Todt would be a much worse choice.

It is difficult to have an opinion when the only fact that we know for certain is that we do not have all the information.

Even when his private sexual preferences and practices are of his own as long as they remain private, his political overtones cannot be condoned since he was so vocal, recently, about the alleged discrimination acts of Spain against Lewis Hamilton.

It looks like the person in charge of the FIA is always condemned to be unpopular.

The former FIA top officer recently died. Jean-Marie Ballestre would not have won a popularity contest at the end of his tenure. In fact, at the time, everybody saw Max Mosley as the ideal successor for a controversial FIA government. The truth is that even not having all the facts, it is apparent that Max Mosley has gone full circle and it is time for him to go (not to say that he is or will be willing to). Now, if there was only a viable successor as he was to Ballestre at some point, ready to give him the same treatment that he gave his predecessor…
 

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so here is a thought....

why not remove spending caps, distribute F1 revunes based on team spending (excluding the revenues), the team with the smallest budget gets the most... the team that spends the most gets nothing (other than the probablity of winning) the leanest teams gets the most revenues to offset the balance of power - sooner or later the "finanacial formula" will balance itself out as the teams figure out the most competitive balance, but its allways a curve... so the team with the greatest native budget gets nothing, and the team with the least gets the most. get the "stewards reviews" off the track, and into the teams books...

new teams could walk right in and be "subsidised". ferrari can keep spending as much as they want... in the end, they are funding the competition by doing so.

also - i think the sporting formula should be effeciancy, "no re-fueling" - you figure out how to complete the laps. wanna run a 1,000hp v-10, then your gonna carry a huge fuel load, and be pitting for tires. a 1 liter turbo desiel that weighs only 1000lbs? little fuel, less weight... maybe you wanna run regenerative braking to carry less fuel. and get the hp bump. at least that would spark some car technology for fuel effeciancy.

pit for tires? cut the pit team down to like 5. so tires will take a good bit longer. reward engering the most "effeciant" concept. and throw out the stupid "you have to run the bad tire too rule...
 

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I wonder how much popularity Ferrari's presence brings to F1...
You have only to note the Tifosi red all over the stands in China or Singapore to answer that.

A 30 million pound cap is similar to the amount A1GP teams spend. :shrug:

I think Ferrari can survive longer without F1 than the other way around.

Tom
 

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I think Ferrari can survive longer without F1 than the other way around.

Tom

I agree.. That's why I posed the question. If the best in the world aren't competing in your organization, the quality of entertainment drops dramatically.

Just imagine if the NBA no longer featured the Lakers and Cavaliers franchises...Maybe that's a bad analogy, lol
 

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I've always enjoyed pulling against Ferrari. If they were gone who would then be the "bad guy"? It's like if we (UNC) lost the Dookies.
If FIA would not turn the rules inside out every year that would produce huge spending reductions. Has anyone ever calculated how much $$ goes into constant redesign? It's been absolutely a joke for years. Yet each year Mosley & FIA come up with another new set of rule revisions "to help control costs". It's like say if I bought a shiny new car every year to make my payments lower.
 

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Funny how the world changes- I recall in the late '80's, early '90's, when all the small teams were crying about not being able to afford the technology that was needed to be at the front. Bernie's response at that time was, "if you cannot afford to compete, Formula One doesn't need you, this is the pinnacle of motorport and we will not lower the bar". Anyone else recall that? If memory serves, the complaints were in reference to semi-auto gearboxes and active suspension. I have to say that I agreed with Bernie. Formula One needs to remain tough- if it doesn't, it will just be another race series.
 

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Have to agree... though I HATE everything about Ferrari except the drivers. Every spectator sport need a great villain. Who can envisage 300+ million people tuning in to watch a contest between Williams and Force India????
 

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i think it would be awesome if Ferrai left F1 and went to Lemans LMP... that would be awesome!

Ferrari's participation in Formula One is so firmly entrenched in the identities of both the world championship and the Italian automaker that its abandonment of the series is almost unthinkable. But thinking about just that, according to some commentators, is what Ferrari chief Luca di Montezemolo wants people to start doing, as a spate of heated correspondence flies back and forth between Maranello and Paris, seat of motorsport's governing body, the FIA.

Montezemolo, who also serves as chairman of the Fiat group and head of the Formula One Teams Association, has been invited to ceremonially start this year's 24 hours of Le Mans by the ACO, where he will be joined by Scuderia Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicalli. And while to some it may seem entirely benign, others insist that it's a shot across the bow of the SS Max Mosley, the FIA chief who's been pushing new cost-cutting regulations to which Ferrari, among several other teams, is vehemently opposed. But could Ferrari really leave Formula One? This isn't the first time the idea's been floated, following a recent campaign to form a renegade spin-off series and Ferrari's Indy program in the 80's, to name just a couple of examples. The hard, cold truth that Mosley must be realizing is that Le Mans series endurance sports car racing has grown in profile to rival that of Formula One, and even if Ferrari's participation in the series is currently limited primarily to GT2, where it has taken numerous class victories, its heritage at the iconic French track is nearly as firmly entrenched as it is on the world's grand prix circuits.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The simplest and easiest thing would be for all the F1 teams to do the break away series they threatened to do, and let Bernie stick it up his ass. There'd be enough cash freed up to give millions to each team, and help new teams join the sport. The current hegemony has got to go. With Ron Dennis now pretty much out of the picture, Bernie and Max are the two remaining F1 fossils that need to be put out to pasture.
 

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The simplest and easiest thing would be for all the F1 teams to do the break away series they threatened to do, and let Bernie stick it up his ass. There'd be enough cash freed up to give millions to each team, and help new teams join the sport. The current hegemony has got to go. With Ron Dennis now pretty much out of the picture, Bernie and Max are the two remaining F1 fossils that need to be put out to pasture.
Well, I plan to outlive both these fossils, and hopefully see better leadership. Bernie's greed is inspiring to really greedy people.
 

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I wouldn't mind seeing Ferrari and McLaren move on and start a rival series. I just wouldn't like to see the mess of IRL and Cart. I watch champ car side by side with F1 until the IRL series. Now it's only F1.

The Ferrari factory in full force in sports car racing would be very cool! Maybe the Porsche and Ferrari battles will be taken on again at the top of the food chain.

Rodney, I do agree with no refueling in F1. It adds another dynamic for the engineers and drivers. Driving style will play another factor for those that can keep good tires. Also would be a lot safer in the pits.
 

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so here is a thought....

why not remove spending caps, distribute F1 revunes based on team spending (excluding the revenues), the team with the smallest budget gets the most... the team that spends the most gets nothing (other than the probablity of winning) the leanest teams gets the most revenues to offset the balance of power - sooner or later the "finanacial formula" will balance itself out as the teams figure out the most competitive balance, but its allways a curve... so the team with the greatest native budget gets nothing, and the team with the least gets the most. get the "stewards reviews" off the track, and into the teams books...

new teams could walk right in and be "subsidised". ferrari can keep spending as much as they want... in the end, they are funding the competition by doing so.

also - i think the sporting formula should be effeciancy, "no re-fueling" - you figure out how to complete the laps. wanna run a 1,000hp v-10, then your gonna carry a huge fuel load, and be pitting for tires. a 1 liter turbo desiel that weighs only 1000lbs? little fuel, less weight... maybe you wanna run regenerative braking to carry less fuel. and get the hp bump. at least that would spark some car technology for fuel effeciancy.

pit for tires? cut the pit team down to like 5. so tires will take a good bit longer. reward engering the most "effeciant" concept. and throw out the stupid "you have to run the bad tire too rule...
Interesting thoughts, I esp. like the idea of bringing back at least one other tire manufacturer.
 

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ferrari AND mclaren should walk away from the f1 series.

Lemans keeps looking more and more like a true formula (lmp-1). think about all the innovation audi brought about - the way the car is built and serviced - blew away the competition - INOVATION. the desiel revolution, while admitedly was a little bit of capatalizing on a rule loop hole... the loop hole was there and allowed to stand! to allow for INOVATION. Lemans is awesome because its a formula for effeciancy vs spec to limit speed.

kers is stupid - not the idea, but the formula - its all spec'd by the fia, only so much hp, for only 6 sec. per lap. why? just add regenerative braking and say "your the competitor, you figure it out!" maybe some teams would have run 200hp boost of a few seconds, others a 50 hp boost for a long time. maybe others would not bother. if a formula does not allow innovation - than its a SPEC.

let the teams figure out the "best" spec from a formula - not given a spec to formulate....

imagine, an ferrari LMP-1 car up against audi and the peugot. that would be awesome! i would love to see Mclaren take on posrsche in customer lmp-2 - that would be some awesome stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ecclestone predicts changes to budget figure

Ecclestone predicts changes to budget figure
04 May 2009


Bernie Ecclestone believes that the proposed £40m figure from the FIA for next year's budget cap may increase before the start of the season in order to persuade all teams to follow the initiative. The spending limit has been met with mixed views from a number of teams, most notably Ferrari, disagreeing with the figure.

With FIA president Max Mosley having originally suggested an amount hovering in the £30m region, the eventual decision emerging from the governing body's meeting in Paris last Wednesday saw £40m being put forward as the limit for teams next year, minus certain expenses such as hospitality and driver salaries. The Ferrari team appears to oppose the idea more than most, however, with the view that a cap - if put in place - should include a less drastic cut and featuring aa annual step-by-step cut.

"It would appear that everyone is in favour of the cap, including Ferrari, if we can get them to agree, which we can," F1 commercial rights holder Ecclestone said to The Times. "However, there is concern over the amount that is referred to in the cap for some of the teams and also the two-tier system. So these are probably not monumental things to sort out." The system in question would involve teams selecting a set of technical regulations to follow for the championship: either be granted greater technical freedom and accept the budget cap or continue with the more restricted technical regulations of this year but with an unlimited budget.

Although Mosley has not altered his decision to retain the cap, and states that the governing body has "very little room to negotiate", Ecclestone is confident for the future of Formula One's longest standing team. "The trouble with Max is he's not capable, like in the past, of wrapping things up nicely with a pink ribbon and things," Ecclestone continued. "He wants to put it in an old cardboard box and tie it with string." Bernie went on to state that Ferrari's future in the sport will not be compromised. "I won't let it happen," he said. "The trouble with Luca (di Montezemolo, Ferrari president) is that you shouldn't let Max ever be in a position where he can start a debate or an argument. He's reasonably clever and you won't win. Even if you do win, it's like you being in the audience and me being there with the microphone. You say something smart and I don't give you the microphone — it's as easy as that."
 

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Don't let the door hit you on the way out Ferrari. Waaa Waaa Waaa -- wu waaaa wu waaaa -- so Ferrari spent BIG $$$ and got beat by an STR last race - at least Massa was able to stay ahead of Force India -- just!

I don't want to see Ferrari go, but it REALLY is in their best interest to accept a budget cap, especially given their current standings (sponsors aren't exactly gonna be knocking down their doors). So are Ferrari saying they can't produce a competitive car on a limited budget? I guess that makes sense, given the price to buy a street Ferrari ;)

F1 has 3 new teams (6 cars) lined up for next year BECAUSE of the budget cap. I'd much rather see 3 new fresh teams than 1 whining team.

McLaren actually have the largest fan base across the globe according to Speed TV.

Rob
 
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