That assumes that 2300 cars will be delivered as 2005's. You're probably right though. The more I think about it I agree that 90% is probably closer.babak said:I think 80 is too low, taking the year to end aug 05, I think that 10% (230 cars) on free market is still high, but considering the deposit holders that flip it is possible. But as cars are delivered the market dynamics will (and are) changing.
This is the second time I am mentioning this. Please consider posting somewhere else. Thanks. I am pretty easy going, but you so easily dismiss the efforts of many people here in thousands and thousands of posts that are informative, and that attempt to help each other out AND to influence Lotus and LCU. If you can't see that, then please quit posting.X000000101 said:I've considered whether Elisetalk is for pure entertainment, information, or possibly for greater goods...like holding questionable dealerships accountable...and offering Lotus buyers and potential buyers warnings of dealerships to steer clear of, etc. Past attempts to add some substance or teeth to Elisetalk have fallen on deaf ears, so I've had to assume it's just for fun...like watching The Daily Show as a source of news.
I believe that Lotus is an extremely reputable company who,like any other company, chooses dealers whom meet specific criteria. These criteria differ as companies differ, but generally, they contractually include things such as: commitment to display said product in such and such a predetermined location in said showroom, not directly competing with brand x. Dealer will provide x amount of floorspace for said product and display in such and such a manner. Dealer will not promote nor advertise "discounted sales" of said product and not compete outside of designated territory (if it's a franchise....which these are not). The language and methods of a manufacturer contractually ensuring that it's dealers represent it in it's intended manner vary as per contract between parties.X000000101 said:I've considered whether Elisetalk is for pure entertainment, information, or possibly for greater goods...like holding questionable dealerships accountable...and offering Lotus buyers and potential buyers warnings of dealerships to steer clear of, etc. Past attempts to add some substance or teeth to Elisetalk have fallen on deaf ears, so I've had to assume it's just for fun...like watching The Daily Show as a source of news.
I would assume any car manufacturer has power over its dealerships. If a dealership is shady or unfair to customers, it should lose its right to sell Lotus if it doesn't clean up its act. If a dealership is clearly screwing deposit-holders, it should be held accountable. But, if Elisetalk can't provide a source for consolidating this info..... (Lotus already has a group of private detectives in us).
Some dealers are taking advantage of the quick profit over the long term...which I assume the Elise is supposed to represent in the plans of Lotus. I thought the Elise was supposed to be the beginning of a new era for Lotus in the US...a long term commitment?
It's the long term that's being degraded...I believe.
Anyway...I digress...I'll get my Elise eventually and not worry about Lotus reputation, etc., as it doesn't appear to matter much in the whole scheme of things.
wakka wakka wakka!
I believe it started here-pianomaniac said:You apparently feel that you have some axe to grind with someone (Elisetalk and Lotus) who owes you NOTHING.
If you referring to this as a business venture, I would be happy to show you the numbers. This loses money for me, which I happily do. I never approached this as a business venture. I run other forums... hardly any take advertising, they exist because I believe in the good a site like this can do, specially for car ownership.X000000101 said:Randy,
Nothing personal...I'm easy going too...and appreciate your business venture.
That thread was never deleted. Here it still is-
I looked all over your site back in September and even posted a thread that was quickly deleted asking how does someone rescind membership? I think it's fair to be able to stop membership if someone wants.
Dave, what you might intend and what you actually post then are two very different things. There are a number of people here that put a lot of effort into creating helpful threads. A lot of people. They (and I) work hard to find out stuff, see if something works, figure out how to take something apart, try a new product... all of that, so we can share this information. All of us are better for that.
I haven't dismissed a single post (as you're dismissing me)...I'm simply saying that there's lots of posts and threads, but no organized effort putting all this energy toward making one or two things better here or there...big things. I'm not even Lotus alumni like some of you and I don't like seeing what's going on...this isn't personal, as I guess you must believe it is, I'm just a person of principle.
I've always posted with thought and effort...and without jumping on any bandwagon or being provocative for provocation's sake. It's funny that I'm now considered a trouble-maker and ruffling feathers just for putting two and two together, and trying to set something right.
I don't plan on posting anywhere else, as I've never posted on any other message board. No worries, mate...
Ideas are always welcomed and appreciated, but you have to understand that EliseTalk is run by volunteers, with limited time available for implementing new features. The database you suggest is not trivial - the information that needs to be gathered is extensive and not something dealerships are likely to part with readily, and of course a UI would need to be written to access it. I agree that it'd be a very useful thing to have, but I don't see how it can be implemented without the support & participation of LCU and all the dealers. As for the last suggestion, regarding the way some dealers act, we've had several threads here bashing some dealers for their actions, and praising others - doesn't that provide this accountability you seek?X000000101 said:I've proposed an active database for #'s of cars delivered from each dealer, an active database of up to what deposit # has been delivered to each dealer, and most recently call to hold dealerships responsible for passing by deposit holders. Oh...evil me for making such selfish requests.
I have also posted more than once that a accounting of dealer's allocations would be very cool.As a side-note, I've assumed there's resistance to such databases because they could open more cans of worms if we really document the overall situation.