[MattG]

Do we change our definition of 'eBay scum' with the recent MSRP hike? What I mean is, I see two possible scenarios here that may increase the number of Elises available for sale:

1. Someone is upset about the MSRP hike, and decides s/he cannot or will not buy the car. However, not wanting the dealer to be the one who comes out ahead, they buy the car and promptly eBay it for a quick profit. Are they scum for doing so, when their original intent was to own the car, and their decision only changed by Lotus' actions?

2. Someone cannot/will not buy the car after the MSRP hike, and is stuck with a non-refundable deposit. Surely we don't expect them to throw away the deposit money. Do we yell and scream at them if they purchase the car and flip it, to at least get their deposit money back?

This issue is just making me realize we're going to need to give some Elise sellers the benefit of the doubt in the near future - Lotus has introduced a perfectly fair reason for someone to sell their car.

 

[zvezdah1]

Matt,
I just don't see they're being sufficient depth to the over msrp crowd, I mean how many of the various ebay auctions has actually been completed?? Taking delivery of the car, the person wanting to auction will have to kick up the price 7-8% at least just to recoup the sales tax, dealer charges etc. Which depending on the equipment will push the car north of 50k just to break even.
Chris

 

[MattG]

Chris, I haven't followed the eBay auctions too closely, and never know which are dealers and which aren't. Still, I think there's enough demand to support a $5k markup, which would cover sales tax & fees. I just feel sorry for those with non-refundable deposits and am trying to think of some ways out for them. I suppose this doesn't help those farther on down the list who won't get their cars for a while - by then, demand may die down - but then, they should have expected an MSRP increase at some point anyway.

 

[ivan1]

as the originator of the ebay scum thread, I would be forgiving

but I predict that once they take delivery most would have a hard time parting with their elise......

 

[zvezdah1]

Yeah but Matt, if you break even, selling a car on ebay is a pain to just break even? I don't really understand, on the non-refundable thing, my deposit with Star originally and later LOA was full refundable up until I got the car far as I recall.
Chris

 

[MattG]

but I predict that once they take delivery most would have a hard time parting with their elise......

Exactly. That is what I expect, and that is the hope I cling to - when my car arrives, I believe that I'll love it so much that I can put behind me the furstrations over the lack of communication and this MSRP issue, and I can just enjoy the car.

 

[Johnny B]

Yeah but Matt, if you break even, selling a car on ebay is a pain to just break even? I don't really understand, on the non-refundable thing, my deposit with Star originally and later LOA was full refundable up until I got the car far as I recall.
Chris

My deposit with Star was refundable up to the point that Wally submitted my order to Lotus.

I am past the point of no return and Wally is one of the greatest guys around and now Lotus has put him in a bad position with his customers that have already placed their orders.

Not only is it wrong to jack the price up on those of us that have placed firm orders, it's wrong to put Lotus dealers in the middle of a bad situation.

 

[MattG]

Yeah but Matt, if you break even, selling a car on ebay is a pain to just break even? I don't really understand, on the non-refundable thing, my deposit with Star originally and later LOA was full refundable up until I got the car far as I recall.
Chris

Ok, eBay is just an example - point is, you could probably sell the car to someone, somehow. Probably another EliseTalker would grab it in a flash.

The non-refundable thing seems to be at certain dealerships only. I don't have direct experience with it, but I've heard enough about it (on EliseTalk) to believe it exists.

Maybe there's another option:
3. Give the dealer a choice - they can refund the deposit and sell your spot (or car) at 'market value', or else you do the same and they lose out. I think they'd choose to refund the deposit.

 

[zvezdah1]

Matt,
I think option 3 is very viable for anyone with cars close, I'm sure the dealer would cheerfully refund the deposit and sell it to someone willing to pay market, for a profit, they don't have to pay the sales tax, win/win for them.

So I think those guys that are really worried about losing their deposit if they walk away should just ask their dealer, I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves refunding your money.
Chris

 

[huggy bear]

I fall into category #1 just as MattG describes. I'm strongly leaning towards selling the car. I don't think Lotus should have increased the price for people who have already ordered. It feels like a betrayal and it's a sorry reward for customers who have stuck with them for almost three years and counting. I've never experienced a mid production year price hike. If I do decide to sell I won't price gouge and would offer it to Elisetalkers first. I'll make a decision by next week.

 

[Patricko]

Ebay Scum is Ebay Scum...

If you want your money back your dealer will write you a check on the spot...

 

[Gromit]

Do we change our definition of 'eBay scum' with the recent MSRP hike? What I mean is, I see two possible scenarios here that may increase the number of Elises available for sale:

1. Someone is upset about the MSRP hike, and decides s/he cannot or will not buy the car. However, not wanting the dealer to be the one who comes out ahead, they buy the car and promptly eBay it for a quick profit. Are they scum for doing so, when their original intent was to own the car, and their decision only changed by Lotus' actions?

2. Someone cannot/will not buy the car after the MSRP hike, and is stuck with a non-refundable deposit. Surely we don't expect them to throw away the deposit money. Do we yell and scream at them if they purchase the car and flip it, to at least get their deposit money back?

This issue is just making me realize we're going to need to give some Elise sellers the benefit of the doubt in the near future - Lotus has introduced a perfectly fair reason for someone to sell their car.

If you think flipping the car for profit is scummy, then it'll remain that way. Why change your mind because :

1 - You're spiteful.

2 - You put down a none refundable deposite on a car you weren't sure you could afford.

??

 

[huggy bear]

Ebay Scum is Ebay Scum...

If you want your money back your dealer will write you a check on the spot...

Not if you already ordered. Why should I lose my deposit and give the dealer the benefit of dropping off?

 

[Patricko]

Not if you already ordered. Why should I lose my deposit and give the dealer the benefit of dropping off?

That is your call...

 

[huggy bear]

Thanks for reminding me. I didn't realize it was my decision which by they way I haven't made yet. Just contemplating.

 

[zvezdah1]

Huggy,
With the market price inflated by dealers, don't you think your dealer would refund your deposit, enabling him to sell it for over MSRP? I can't believe he'd force you to take the car if he can sell it.
Chris

 

[MattG]

Re: Re: MSRP change = more Elises on eBay, but less scum?

If you think flipping the car for profit is scummy, then it'll remain that way. Why change your mind because :

1 - You're spiteful.

2 - You put down a none refundable deposite on a car you weren't sure you could afford.

I see a difference in intent. On the one hand is a speculator who places a deposit with the intent of profiting from an increased early market value. On the other hand is an enthusiast with original intent of owning and enjoying the car. I just don't like lumping both of those types into a single category.

Also, the option #2 I mentioned does not require that a person can no longer afford the car, but rather, they've changed their mind (due to non-financial reasons) and find they cannot back out of the deal.

 

[raggedy1]

Given the chance, I would buy an Elise TODAY at $3,500.00 over MSRP.

I figure by the time my car comes (#48 at SVAG and not even ordered yet) I will basically come out even considering there is probably another price hike in the pipeline.

It is not unusual for manufacturers to have price adjustments to invoice prices during the model year. You can see these adjustments if you check quarterly publications that disclose invoice prices. I once had access to these books and would see these adjustments - usually small increases during the model year...

So call me part of the problem if I pay over MSRP, but realistically I'm just trying to beat the price bumps. I'm not going to go looking for a car at 3.5K over MSRP, but if one were to present itself I will jump without hesistation (assuming a color/option combo I could live with)

One more price hike and I'm going to go test drive an S2000

I'm glad I haven't sold the MR2T yet...

 

[bboersma]

raggedy1

I agree with you, unfortunantly I sold my '01 S2000 a few months back and only have my leased Volvo S60 T5, which runs out in May, next spring I may be looking for an '04 S2000 if there are any additional delays/MSRP bumps.

 

[raggedy1]

call me vain, but the exclusivity and "look" of the elise make it more appealing to me over the s2K. Lotus is making me reconsider this cachet and I'm now peeking into the Honda dealer's window.

that's too bad you don't have your S2K anymore. You must be having sports car withdrawal (although your T5 is pretty darn fast)