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Looking for feedback from knowledgeable racers or instructors on my screw up at VIR. Luckily for me Friss caught it on video allowing me to hopefully learn from my mistakes. First time at VIR so didn't know the track and was inconsistent in my approach and came in too hot for the corner. What I want to understand what is causing the rubber marks from left rear? Is that tire scrubbing off or brakes locking? Was this example of "ice mode" Tire mark starts at 1.54.522 on Friss cam.
 

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Looking for feedback from knowledgeable racers or instructors on my screw up at VIR. Luckily for me Friss caught it on video allowing me to hopefully learn from my mistakes. First time at VIR so didn't know the track and was inconsistent in my approach and came in too hot for the corner. What I want to understand what is causing the rubber marks from left rear? Is that tire scrubbing off or brakes locking? Was this example of "ice mode" Tire mark starts at 1.54.522 on Friss cam.
Hard to do a ton of detective work on my phone now, but virtually impossible to lock tires in "ice mode"..you would know as the pedal gets very hard and you have probably lost 50% of your capacity.
Hard to see the mark well on the small screen..best news is no damage?
 

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I know this turn and watched it 6 times. I believe it is the LR starting to skid out. Almost looks ( and btw a totally human response), you sensed the OS moment and lifted 1% on a LR already at its max and beyond. It is so easy to be late there due to the dropoff. That's my 2cents
 
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Hey, not much to add to this thread, but let me know next time your up at VIR, I dont live to far from there and would be happy to jump on a track day or just rent a trackside condo for the weekend to meet some people. Cant see the aftermath of the slide, but hope you and your Elise are alright.
 

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You would know ice mode. It happened to me yesterday because I pulled the wrong fuse from the fuse box instead of simply disconnected a speed sensor. But basically as mentioned above, you'll go on your brakes and it'll feel like there's a rock or something jammed behind the pedal and keeping you from applying more brake power. And it sucks.
 

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Looking for feedback from knowledgeable racers or instructors on my screw up at VIR. Luckily for me Friss caught it on video allowing me to hopefully learn from my mistakes. First time at VIR so didn't know the track and was inconsistent in my approach and came in too hot for the corner. What I want to understand what is causing the rubber marks from left rear? Is that tire scrubbing off or brakes locking? Was this example of "ice mode" Tire mark starts at 1.54.522 on Friss cam.
That’s very late to be still be braking.Is that what you were doing? I see a lot of body roll so that L rear had a lot of weight on it.Looks like you turned hard Left to try to save it.My guess is there was to much weight transfer to L rear.I’m surprised you didn’t loop it.
 

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The entry line looks fine to me (apex way round that corner). I might have started further left, almost in the dirt before the crest.

I would also likely brake all the way to the apex but your brake setup needs to be ideal for trail braking to do that, especially given the off-camber nature of the corner. What brake setup do you have and do you have ABS?

It looks like you get off the brakes after the rotation starts but you do not correct dramatically until you are on the grass. Maybe a bit more correction and a bit of throttle would have made the rear sit down and bite.

Were you running traction control and is the surface bumpy? I used to do that all the time on a nice 90 mph off-camber corner at a track in Texas until I realized that the TC was lifting for me (TC-off = never happened again). I never use my 2007 TC, it is a devil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Looking for feedback from knowledgeable racers or instructors on my screw up at VIR. Luckily for me Friss caught it on video allowing me to hopefully learn from my mistakes. First time at VIR so didn't know the track and was inconsistent in my approach and came in too hot for the corner. What I want to understand what is causing the rubber marks from left rear? Is that tire scrubbing off or brakes locking? Was this example of "ice mode" Tire mark starts at 1.54.522 on Friss cam.
I forgot to add watch Friss rear view mirror for the "moment"
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I forgot to add watch Friss rear view mirror for the "moment"
That "moment" was the BMW stopping and getting around me as I'm trying to restart the engine and then seeing seven more cars in two groups come thru the corner at me. No flags!!!! The corner flagger never saw it. I got it going waited until I saw a gap in the oncoming traffic and then backed offtrack corrected and headed back to have a word and walk around by the track steward. All the while I'm hearing "this isn't good" in my headset lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I know this turn and watched it 6 times. I believe it is the LR starting to skid out. Almost looks ( and btw a totally human response), you sensed the OS moment and lifted 1% on a LR already at its max and beyond. It is so easy to be late there due to the dropoff. That's my 2cents
Thanks I wasn't sure if it was skidding or from braking but you confirmed my suspicions. You nailed it on more than likely on the lift as I was fighting the counter intuitiveness of the turn
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You would know ice mode. It happened to me yesterday because I pulled the wrong fuse from the fuse box instead of simply disconnected a speed sensor. But basically as mentioned above, you'll go on your brakes and it'll feel like there's a rock or something jammed behind the pedal and keeping you from applying more brake power. And it sucks.
Not sure if I thought there was a rock or I just ran out of braking as it all happened so quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey, not much to add to this thread, but let me know next time your up at VIR, I dont live to far from there and would be happy to jump on a track day or just rent a trackside condo for the weekend to meet some people. Cant see the aftermath of the slide, but hope you and your Elise are alright.
Will do Danny. That was first time there and I will be going back but not till fall. Can't run in the heat. A man has got to know his limitations!
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That’s very late to be still be braking.Is that what you were doing? I see a lot of body roll so that L rear had a lot of weight on it.Looks like you turned hard Left to try to save it.My guess is there was to much weight transfer to L rear.I’m surprised you didn’t loop it.
Yeah for the life of me when the instructor and I tried to analyze what happened we weren't sure if I had been just trail braking or seeing the wall just jamming on the brakes. Watch the fun in the rear view mirror
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The entry line looks fine to me (apex way round that corner). I might have started further left, almost in the dirt before the crest.

I would also likely brake all the way to the apex but your brake setup needs to be ideal for trail braking to do that, especially given the off-camber nature of the corner. What brake setup do you have and do you have ABS?

It looks like you get off the brakes after the rotation starts but you do not correct dramatically until you are on the grass. Maybe a bit more correction and a bit of throttle would have made the rear sit down and bite.

Were you running traction control and is the surface bumpy? I used to do that all the time on a nice 90 mph off-camber corner at a track in Texas until I realized that the TC was lifting for me (TC-off = never happened again). I never use my 2007 TC, it is a devil.
Not running TC unless I accidently turned it on. My brakes are now RC-5+ all the way around. When I first got the car it had XP10/XP8 setup but not good for street so as they wore out I went to more of a street/track set. Eventually may go back to the XP10/8 but with dedicated bedded rotors.
 

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you're on the gas there spinning the LR are you not? Then either you get too much yaw without correcting, or you lifted and it snapped...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
you're on the gas there spinning the LR are you not? Then either you get too much yaw without correcting, or you lifted and it snapped...
I'm thinking I lifted and screwed the pooch.
 

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From watching the video and having done many laps on that track, what I saw it that you never let the car track out after coming off the corner. Thus, you caused the car to over rotate, or as Kevin says "Yaw". If you watch the front wheels, you never see any correction for the rotation that is occurring. With that corner proceeding downhill, the car is going to want to drift to the left side of the track. By keeping wheel in the car, the front keeps tracking right and the rear starts drifting left.

Later,
Eldon
 

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If I have my orientation correct, then this is Roller Coaster right before the downhill section. I agree with Kevin and Eldon in that you over rotated the car. It's hard to tell if you were still on the brakes or lifted while on throttle. You do want to track out there as it sets you for the esses and allows you to get on the power.
 

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I want to change my answer, watching now on a bigger monitor you have the brakes on still all the way to the end? I am not sure anymore.
 
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