[shinoo]

We're excited to announce the development of new aluminum steering arms for the Lotus variants. We have been working with Ralph @ V2 Motorsports to develop this solution for our cars. The kit includes shims that will allow you to easily go from a street friendly camber setting and quickly dial in more for track use - at the track.

Ralph modelled the kinematics of our suspension to sort this solution. One key advantage of this solution is that it helps correct the bump steer problems - unlike simply machining the stock steering arms.

The stainless steel shims will come in several thicknesses to help you dial in the exact camber you would like. They can be installed or removed without pulling out the bolts fully.
A rapid prototype (SLA) model was created and fit to confirm the design. Everything fits well. The New arms will give you about 1.6 deg camber gain over the OE part.

We've now put them into production.

 

[A7594217]

I have been waiting

But before i get to happy whats the price gonna be.

 

[RichS]

Aye, what's the cost? This I will probably get.

 

[dstevens]

Do you have the bump steer curve?

 

[carl]

Shinoo, great idea more neg camber makes a huge difference in handeling and turn in. Taking the extra step to eliminate bump steer is sheer genius. don't you ever run out of ideas? carl

 

[plastique999]

Interested...cost?

 

[apk919]

[edit - removed to stay on topic]

Sector's proposed steering arm seems to be designed to also allow more negative camber as well as leveling the rod end.

[edit - removed to stay on topic] does Sector's steering arm have features that [edit - stay on topic] others do not have?

 

[38bfast]

The new design steering arm will be manufactured to work with the durable and low maintenance OE tie rod end and still improve the bump curve. Offset had to be changed to accomplish this. It will increases camber by 1.5 deg over the OE solution. It will be hard coated for a durable finish aluminum. Much better than anodizing. Of course it will be lighter than the OE solution.

 

[apk919]

The new design steering arm will be manufactured to work with the durable and low maintenance OE tie rod end and still improve the bump curve. Offset had to be changed to accomplish this. It will increases camber by 1.5 deg over the OE solution. It will be hard coated for a durable finish aluminum. Much better than anodizing. Of course it will be lighter than the OE solution.

Thanks for the clarification... I'm definitely interested.

 

[shinoo]

This is a clean sheet design. Ralph is an OEM engineer who also happens to be Spec Miata champ. He owns an Exige and is keen on fixing issues with our cars. I think you will be pleased with the performance of this kit - it is well engineered and will be made here in the US.

Price is not yet fixed. I expect to have them within 2-3 weeks.

 

[Mark A]

What bumpsteer problems?

If you remove bumpsteer on a road car you are asking for issues, which if he was an OEM engineer he would know, you have to take compliance and stability into account and removing bumpsteer is against this.

If you say it improves bumpsteer please post up the before and after graphs.

 

[sleepe]

mark,
Please explain in more depth for the uneducated. (me)

robert

 

[Mark A]

Robert,

Quick response (as I really need to start work )

Looking purely at bumpsteer. As you corner all cars are set-up to induce a touch of toe-out as you go into bump on the outer wheel, this basically reduces the response a touch which gives good stability (too much toe-out will deaden the response and make the car feel lethargic). If you have no bumpsteer you have no steer effect which heightens the response and leads to potential oversteer making the car twitchy through the bends.

The Elise has more bumpsteer on the front than an average FWD saloon car (almost 3x as much) as it has to account for rear driven wheels and a weight balance towards the rear of the car, therefore it needs a higher level of roll understeer. A std FWD car has that weight over the front wheels so has a roll understeer characteristic due to the front/rear weight balance.

Then looking at compliance. Underbraking the best stability is with a touch of toe-out. Although the compliance steer on a standard Elise is quite small the longitudinal compliance will tend towards a touch of toe in. As the car also dives under braking the bumpsteer characteristics will counter this so still giving a stable braking situation.

For someone with a race car I'm sure some of the factors I describe which will give a slightly more unstable rear end which will induce turn-in response is fine but on the road it can occasionally lead to expensive backwards into ditch moments.

 

[Simon S]

This is a clean sheet design. Ralph is an OEM engineer who also happens to be Spec Miata champ. He owns an Exige and is keen on fixing issues with our cars. I think you will be pleased with the performance of this kit - it is well engineered and will be made here in the US..

*Cough*
so it's nothing like the Eliseparts item (that's been around for several years now?)

Oh, and BTW, they don't eliminate bump-steer, they just give you the ability to adjust it over a wider range than moving the steering rack. (and as Mark has already said, you need some bump-steer at the front for stability etc).

 

[apk919]

What bumpsteer problems?

If you remove bumpsteer on a road car you are asking for issues, which if he was an OEM engineer he would know, you have to take compliance and stability into account and removing bumpsteer is against this.

If you say it improves bumpsteer please post up the before and after graphs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the steering geometry on the Fed Elise/Exige was designed to run at 130mm ride height, and Lotus does not recommend running below 120mm because of issues with bump steer. Many of us who track their cars run either at 120mm or slightly below, and would like to find a solution to counter this issue. We'd also like to be able to set more negative camber, possibly without permanent modification to the OEM steering arms or uprights. This piece seems to address both issues, so I'd certainly like to hear more.

 

[MulhollandMotors]

+1 ^^^

 

[kaz]

*Cough*
so it's nothing like the Eliseparts item (that's been around for several years now?)

Hi Simon-

*and this is not really directed at you, just in general*

I think there were other comments on this thread as well saying the same thing. That Sector (or whoever) is "copying" or "stealing". I guess I kind of understand the initial reaction - independent of the parts' worthiness. But the part I don't get is that bump steer components have been around for ages on all sorts of cars, from all sorts of manufacturers. There are many brands of double and triple adjustable suspensions, people who make uprights, suspensions components, etc. Different exhausts, different wheels, different seats, different suspension joints...so...I don't quite understand how a part on a website means that no one else can make the same part when it's the basis of capitalism to take what's there and improve - over and over till someone gets it right.

Are the arguments that, said company or whoever should never sell or create parts that have already been made? I don't quite understand the logic. I go to the supermarket, there are 20 brands of corn flakes...I live in America I like choices. Iman on this board is making tons and tons of custom parts for his car, is he stealing or copying? My good friend Cary who makes ALMS suspensions is going to eventually make parts for our car, should I tell him to stop? Because they are going to be things like A arms and suspension components and joints and uprights...things that already exist on other websites but I want something better.

My simple point is...I would HOPE that MANY more companies get into the mix and create and improve on parts that already exist, it's called innovation. Sometimes the new stuff is not as good as the old stuff, sometimes it is...who cares it's capitalism. I just had a weird reaction in people pointing out that a part already exists somewhere on the planet. I mean, seriously that's kind of insane to point that something is wrong because there are more choices (?!?!) The tech sector does this everyday, the very computer you are reading this from is built from parts that copy each other cheaper and better over and over. So again, Simon not intended at you, just I am trying to understand where people are coming from.

 

[Simon S]

Hi Simon-

*and this is not really directed at you, just in general*

I think there were other comments on this thread as well saying the same thing. That Sector (or whoever) is "copying" or "stealing". I guess I kind of understand the initial reaction - independent of the parts' worthiness. But the part I don't get is that bump steer components have been around for ages on all sorts of cars, from all sorts of manufacturers. There are many brands of double and triple adjustable suspensions, people who make uprights, suspensions components, etc. Different exhausts, different wheels, different seats, different suspension joints...so...I don't quite understand how a part on a website means that no one else can make the same part when it's the basis of capitalism to take what's there and improve - over and over till someone gets it right.

Are the arguments that, said company or whoever should never sell or create parts that have already been made? I don't quite understand the logic. I go to the supermarket, there are 20 brands of corn flakes...I live in America I like choices. Iman on this board is making tons and tons of custom parts for his car, is he stealing or copying? My good friend Cary who makes ALMS suspensions is going to eventually make parts for our car, should I tell him to stop? Because they are going to be things like A arms and suspension components and joints and uprights...things that already exist on other websites but I want something better.

My simple point is...I would HOPE that MANY more companies get into the mix and create and improve on parts that already exist, it's called innovation. Sometimes the new stuff is not as good as the old stuff, sometimes it is...who cares it's capitalism. I just had a weird reaction in people pointing out that a part already exists somewhere on the planet. I mean, seriously that's kind of insane to point that something is wrong because there are more choices (?!?!) The tech sector does this everyday, the very computer you are reading this from is built from parts that copy each other cheaper and better over and over. So again, Simon not intended at you, just I am trying to understand where people are coming from.

no problem.... I am somewhat thicker skinned than that!

My point was that to describe something as This is a clean sheet design when it's clearly not as others already exist and have done for some time is somewhat a hollow statement.

now, yes there is little anybody can do about people copying their work (it's not like you can patent a steering arm or the like) however, considering the design is dam near identical, I think we can safely say they are not a clean sheet design

I'll leave the morals of all this for others, asides to say the Elise market place seems particularly bad for this kind of thing, which is a shame as it discourages the really talented folk from coming up with stuff in the first place.

 

[kaz]

ah...yes your post actually makes sense in that regard - however, this is all semantics, as in California we are all well aware of the tactics used in the semiconducter business and the kinds of contracts employees sign on intellectual property, reverse engineering etc. I view these steering arms as simple pieces where there aren't many ways to make them - it's kinda like an A arm, there are only so many ways to make them sturdy. Clean sheet...perhaps, no one will ever know if they actually got the engineer to develop in a vacuum without outside knowledge...I couldn't care less that has nothing to do with the part I would be buying (or not buying). I also don't see this affecting people like Troy coming on the board and making something that it seems a lot of people are buying. I think more likely it's just people are well aware that great ideas and designs will be used as a basis for moving forward with new and better parts - again that's the way the world turns round.

 

[apk919]

no problem.... I am somewhat thicker skinned than that!

My point was that to describe something as This is a clean sheet design when it's clearly not as others already exist and have done for some time is somewhat a hollow statement.

now, yes there is little anybody can do about people copying their work (it's not like you can patent a steering arm or the like) however, considering the design is dam near identical, I think we can safely say they are not a clean sheet design

I'll leave the morals of all this for others, asides to say the Elise market place seems particularly bad for this kind of thing, which is a shame as it discourages the really talented folk from coming up with stuff in the first place.

Are you claiming that the Sector111 piece is an <b>identical</b> copy of the Elise Parts piece?

If yes, how do you know that? After all, they're clearly going to <b>look</b> similar, since they are basically intended to replace the same OEM part.

If no, then how is it a copy? As I understand it there <b>is</b> a difference between the two pieces, especially in regard to camber adjustability range.