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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I'm considering purchasing a 2-Eleven. At the outset, I'll admit I don't know much about them, so please indulge my ignorance. (And, yes, I have done some searches.)

1. (a) I'm trying to determine what these cars are currently selling for, but this is not so easy to ascertain due to the fact that so few cars were imported and, correspondingly, there are not many resales. Obviously, the value depends on history, options, upgrades, etc., but what is the ballpark price for a well-sorted, well-documented, low mileage car?

(b) I know original sale price has no direct correlation to current market value, but what did these cars originally sell for? A dealer here says $90,000, but that seems high to me. A January 2008 Autoweek article says $78,500. Even that seems high to me in light of the fact that Exiges of that era sold for at least $10K less than that.

2. What options were there on the early cars -- 2007/2008? I have a 2010 brochure which lists big brake kit, rigid tonneau, removable steering wheel, FIA bag fuel tank, and two LSDs (torsen and plate), but the dealer was no help in telling me what options (if any) existed earlier on.

3. What are the track "need" upgrades as opposed to "want" upgrades. I've been told you need to change the oil pan, rear toe links, front camber plates. Anything else that should be done at the getgo?

4. Is there a consensus as to whether an open diff or LSD is better on a typical 2-3 mile road course? In other words, does the increased ability to put down power outweigh the adverse effect on handling (understeer)?

5. I currently own a closed cockpit track car and therefor I'm able to get by with an open trailer. Does anyone tow their 211 with an open trailer and, if so, is there an effective way to keep the cockpit dry in the even of adverse weather? I'd prefer not to buy a new trailer right now.

6. Lotus advertises that (in contrast to the Elise/Exige) the 211 uses multiple, relatively inexpensive body panels that are easy to change out. Is there any sense that these body panels will remain available over the next 10 years or so? Are there aftermarket panels? I am prompted to ask this question because an independent shop owner said that Lotus told him they do not have new front clams for his client's Exige.

7. How much of the front and rear structure are replaceable/repairable in the event of crash damage? I understand that the aluminum bonded tub is pretty much toast if damaged, but I'm wondering how much intrusion is possible to repairable structures before that happens.

Thank you for your help and advice.

Andy
 

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Andy, I'm off to the track right now so I will respond more fully later this afternoon. All your questions are good ones. ;)

On pricing, the MY2008 cars (there were no 2007 imported to the US) had a MSRP of ~$83K. They only came one way (no options available) and in 4 color schemes. Subsequent MY versions were available with certain factory options.

Used 2-Elevens depending upon pedigree and "proper" modifications/after-market parts ... have sold in the range of $52-90K. Feel free to PM me with your contact info.

More details later. :UK:
 

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Andy, I'm off to the track right now so I will respond more fully later this afternoon. All your questions are good ones. ;)

On pricing, the MY2008 cars (there were no 2007 imported to the US) had a MSRP of ~$83K. They only came one way (no options available) and in 4 color schemes. Subsequent MY versions were available with certain factory options.

Used 2-Elevens depending upon pedigree and "proper" modifications/after-market parts ... have sold in the range of $52-90K. Feel free to PM me with your contact info.

More details later. :UK:
Jack:
I am all ears. The discussion would help fill in holes in my knowledge too; the more of the conversation that appears in this thread the better.
Bob
 

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I have a 2008 2-11 that I purchased used 5 years ago , sorry not much help with the USA values but will chime in with a reply your other questions .

I'm considering purchasing a 2-Eleven. At the outset, I'll admit I don't know much about them, so please indulge my ignorance. (And, yes, I have done some searches.)


2. What options were there on the early cars -- 2007/2008? I have a 2010 brochure which lists big brake kit, rigid tonneau, removable steering wheel, FIA bag fuel tank, and two LSDs (torsen and plate), but the dealer was no help in telling me what options (if any) existed earlier on.

Lotus put out a brochure that fully covered all the options ...will dig it out and post .


3. What are the track "need" upgrades as opposed to "want" upgrades. I've been told you need to change the oil pan, rear toe links, front camber plates. Anything else that should be done at the get go?

The fuel starve issue on LH turns need too be sorted . Either a new fuel tank or a swirl tank setup . I have used the BOE offering with and this works well and is petty much a plug and play setup.
Changing your oil pan is a must (or Dry Sump - BOE / Sector 111 / Pace all offer kits ) and also check that your Accusump is working correctly .
Check all the oil connections especially those to the front Rads , mine we're a little loose and some have split . I have removed the oil rads and replaced with a Laminova , which is a popular option.
The more camber on the front the better , you can mill down the arms or get units from Sector 111.
I run Slicks a run camber at 3.2 .
Tyre choice is important . I have been using either Yokohama or Hoosier . These tyres maintain the correct rake on the car ( the Yokohama is the closest ) . If you go with the Hankooks they are to high on the front and this causes issues with set up etc .

Front water radiator has been an issue for some depending on ambient temp . I changed over to a 3 pass Alloy unit .
I personally favour the big brake kit.. But not everyone does .. See recent thread . http://http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f91/brake-upgrade-241802/
I installed the front brakes on the rear ( kit avail from SInply Sports Lotus in Australia) and have no problems with the pedal or balance . Used the AP BBK .. I have the part numbers so that kit can be purchased direct , which is cheaper ... If required .
A good data system is a must ( in my opinion ) for the track . You get to monitor the engine etc , but it will make you a faster driver with the GPS track maps etc
I changed to a Tillet B6 carbon seat , much more support than OEM and fitted a Schroth 6 point belt .. Best belt ever in my opinion . Used the sector111 mounting kit .


4. Is there a consensus as to whether an open diff or LSD is better on a typical 2-3 mile road course? In other words, does the increased ability to put down power outweigh the adverse effect on handling (understeer)?

I have the TRD in my car and no complaints , but have nothing to compare it with .
There has been a very good discussion here lately with regards to uprights / suspension and diffs .
http://http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f163/uprights-what-available-111-chassis-167201/
I am using the stock uprights and suspension (Ohlin) running a ride height of 100f and 110R and have no complaints , but it is interesting to see that the EP uprights will drop the car lower and keep the wishbones in place .

5. I currently own a closed cockpit track car and therefor I'm able to get by with an open trailer. Does anyone tow their 211 with an open trailer and, if so, is there an effective way to keep the cockpit dry in the even of adverse weather? I'd prefer not to buy a new trailer right now.

I have an open trailer , but don't really Tavel long distances so rain is not an issue .
I do have a rain cover to go over the cockpit that Lotus supplied.
The car is weatherproof , so it shouldn't be an issue .
If you elect to use a Recaro seat with cloth covering that would be a problem .

6. Lotus advertises that (in contrast to the Elise/Exige) the 211 uses multiple, relatively inexpensive body panels that are easy to change out. Is there any sense that these body panels will remain available over the next 10 years or so? Are there aftermarket panels? I am prompted to ask this question because an independent shop owner said that Lotus told him they do not have new front clams for his client's Exige.

I don't think I would rely on Lotus to carry stock for a long time ..and it would be scary to ask the price !
Aftermarket copies are easy to get in the UK . I have a couple of contacts if you require .

7. How much of the front and rear structure are replaceable/repairable in the event of crash damage? I understand that the aluminum bonded tub is pretty much toast if damaged, but I'm wondering how much intrusion is possible to repairable structures before that happens.

Basically if you bend a Lotus chassis it's history , but that been said there have been many that have been repaired , but for track only use and the ones I have seen are perfectly safe .
Repairs to the chassis is not rocket science as some would have you believe , but do keep in mind they are alloy .
The carbon from crash structure can easily be built with alloy ( ie GT3 crash structure , again not street legal) if required . The rear is steel and would be easy to replicate .
Bottom line .. The Lotus is definitely more fragile ( for want of a better word) but then that's what makes them light and stiff ..

Hope this helps ... Sending from a mobile device so please excuse spelling etc
Cheers
Barry


Thank you for your help and advice.

Andy
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks, Barry. That's helpful, particularly the info about aftermarket body panels and repairability. And one hell of a post considering you did it on a mobile device!

Question, though: what kind of rain cover did Lotus supply to go over the cockpit? Would it stay on with the car being towed or is it just for stationary use?

Andy
 

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211's

A-Z, hi.

I have a 2010 211 which I purchased from Jack about a year ago. I am therefore a little spoiled as the car was well cared for, already had the necessary mods (& then some!!) and was fully sorted. :) I will try to touch on a few of your questions:

1) The stock radiator is probably not up to the task if you run in hot ambients. In moderate ambients with the two stock oil coolers it is probably OK. In my car the oil coolers were eliminated in favor of a laminova with much beefier radiator (I believe 3" thick as opposed to 1 3/4" stock). It does not overheat in 105 degree ambients (but I do........). If you wish to add more cooling capacity in a cheaper fashion, you can keep the stock oil coolers & install a wizard radiator which is 2 1/4" thick. They are about 500$ & require no modification to the radiator bracket. I put one in my old Elise & t was just fine in very hot ambients. I doubt that the proalloy 3-pass setups add a lot cooling capacity as they are no thicker than stock, but they are a much higher quality radiator than stock for sure.

2) my car has a stock tank and has had no starvation issues. I am however converting to a fuel cell for safety reasons.

3) Suspension bushes were upgraded to monoballs; they are wonderful & worth the trouble

4) Smarty-cam integrated into the ECU has been very helpful for improving my driving; they are well worth the $$$.

5) Body panels if Lotus has them will be expensive. There are however guys on the west coast I am told who have made the necessary molds. I don't imagine they are cheap, & thankfully I haven't had to find out.

6) There is an LSD in my car (OS-Giken). No complaints. I have never driven one with an open diff

7) you absolutely do need a baffled oil pan

The 211 for me has been a blast; I hope you take the leap & get one!!

Cheers,

Mark
 

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Andy,

Looks like you've received some good info from both Mark and Barry.

As a follow-up to Mark's post .... the reason Mark doesn't have any fuel starvation issues is because the tank in his (my old) 211 is of the newer design. The earlier US cars delivered in 2008 required an updated gas tank to remedy the fuel starvation issue .... none of the early cars came with a fuel cell.

IMHO, the most important mods to an otherwise stock, as delivered from the factory, US 211 to make it track ready at a minimum are: 1) engine mounts, 2) catch cans, 3) baffled oil pan, 4) stone guard for front air-to-air oil coolers, 4) proper alignment settings and ride height adjustment to accommodate slicks. The 211 was originally delivered with R-compound tires -- Yoko 048s.

I ran my first 2-Eleven with only the above mods and all was good ... the radiator/oil coolers worked fine. It had an open diff and it was good. LSD can help if it's the right one .... not the "Torsen" LSD which was the only made available by Lotus as an option in 2010 (creates too much understeer mid-corner).

Of course, there are many other modifications that will make the car better and I've probably had most of those done to my two 211s, more so to the red one. ;)

As for body panels, Tecnocraft ( Tecnocraft | Dry Carbon Fiber Composites for Exotic Vehicles ) located in California has the molds for all the 211 panels (including the tonneau) and can make them in carbon fibre or fiberglass. Contact them directly as the 211 offerings are not shown on their site.

The 211 is a blast on track, is quite capable and is able to humble many much higher HP cars that you will typically encounter at at HPDE track day.

I will call you later to discuss any other questions you may have.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Jack, it was a pleasure talking with you yesterday. It was a helpful discussion -- you are a great resource. It seems we have quite a bit in common. Hope to see you at the track one of these days.

I'm going to email you a couple of follow-up questions.

cheers, Andy
 

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Rain cover supplied by Lotus but do not know part number or price .
You can contact Marcus at Lotus Parts UK for info: [email protected]
Car is away having a full roll cage fitted , so unable to show the cover fitted . But it fits the roll cage and has four points of attachment at the guards using a felt covered hook ... see pictures.
A dust cover is also avail from Lotus . I have one and they are excellent quality.
I also have a Tonneau cover which I would also recommend.
Jack makes some great points [as always] stone guards are absolute must .. if I recall Innovative mounts make them . Also the catch cans are a good call .
Lotus supplied to me a later model fuel tank , but this also caused starvation issues , I would recommend a swirl pot to completely eliminate the problem.
Look forward to hearing if you join the 211 club .
Cheers



 

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6. Lotus advertises that (in contrast to the Elise/Exige) the 211 uses multiple, relatively inexpensive body panels that are easy to change out. Is there any sense that these body panels will remain available over the next 10 years or so? Are there aftermarket panels? I am prompted to ask this question because an independent shop owner said that Lotus told him they do not have new front clams for his client's Exige.

I don't think I would rely on Lotus to carry stock for a long time ..and it would be scary to ask the price !
Aftermarket copies are easy to get in the UK . I have a couple of contacts if you require .

7. How much of the front and rear structure are replaceable/repairable in the event of crash damage? I understand that the aluminum bonded tub is pretty much toast if damaged, but I'm wondering how much intrusion is possible to repairable structures before that happens.


My son crashed my Lotus 2-11 in turn 5 at Laguna Seca right after Thanksgiving this last year.... the rear "cap" was $3500 and had to come from England... the very very minor damage to the side panels was easily repaired at the body shop.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Rain cover supplied by Lotus but do not know part number or price .
You can contact Marcus at Lotus Parts UK for info: [email protected]
Car is away having a full roll cage fitted , so unable to show the cover fitted . But it fits the roll cage and has four points of attachment at the guards using a felt covered hook ... see pictures.
A dust cover is also avail from Lotus . I have one and they are excellent quality.
I also have a Tonneau cover which I would also recommend.
Jack makes some great points [as always] stone guards are absolute must .. if I recall Innovative mounts make them . Also the catch cans are a good call .
Lotus supplied to me a later model fuel tank , but this also caused starvation issues , I would recommend a swirl pot to completely eliminate the problem.
Look forward to hearing if you join the 211 club .
Cheers



Thanks cph. Good info. Maybe I can get by with my open trailer for now.

If I do succeed in acquiring a 211, I'll be sure to let everyone know. It's certainly a welcoming (if small) community. I've already had a couple of nice, fairly long conversations with Jack.

Andy
 

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I would add to Jacks list -- and I did everything he suggested to me.... I also upgraded to the MonoBall over the "rubber" suspension bushings... AND am running either the Hoosier A6 or the Yokohama S005 Soft (I have 3 sets of wheels and various tires mounted).

The thing I'd add if the car doesn't come with one -- is a Dash Mount rear view mirror.... in addition to the driver and passenger side mirrors. Mine is carbon fiber from Race Mirrors - available from Pegasus Racing.

Race Mirrors : Patented Advanced Aerodynamic Design
 

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I would add to Jacks list -- and I did everything he suggested to me....
Greg, you went all the way. ;) Thought I would start Andy off easy. ;)

Once he's found his 2-Eleven ..... I will share all the info with him.

Some photos showing early mods, which most casual observers never notice ..... the "tip of the iceberg"..... :D
 

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Being an east coast 2-11er, I do not get to hang out with all of you guys! I have to race silly old BMWs and Ariel Atoms instead of my beloved 2-11.
Although I do take it to VIR club days every so often.
I agree with all of the above of course. I have debated about full cage but have wanted to keep my 2-11 as close to OEM in appearance as possible.
By the way, where did you get that awesome 2-11 cover? ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1406560702.029357.jpg ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1406560749.369474.jpg ImageUploadedByAutoGuide1406561053.110499.jpg


Sent from AutoGuide.com App
 

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Conpared to the guys that have posted I'm a 211 newbie. This is my first season with my car. It's a 2008 model and I purchased it from a member of this forum. I can say that this forum and the owners group of these cars is high point of the ownership. It really is a tight community and almost like a secret society of the insane. A few of the guys who have posted are very knowledgeable and generous with that experience (Jack, Greg etc). For me that is a big part of the charm.

I LOVE the crap out of my car. It truly is one of my favorite cars and I have had a few fantastic cars. The sense of occasion is epic. The car looks dainlty when you peer at the specifics, but the experience is very brutal and raw, in a fantastic way. It is a viceral car, it is a light car, it is a mechanical car and it is an immediate car. Get it dialed and you will most often have more car than talent. In fact I would say this is a car that rewards talent and builds talent.

It does not matter how fast you are, this car is an riot. Every sense is alive, the rush of wind, the smells of brake, exhaust, the humidity, the sight of the road through your helmet (no windscreen to dull the eperiece). All of this paired with fantstic steering, endless brakes and plenty of power make it a car that has few rivals.

The upsides are obvious. Cheap power plants, cheap brakes, light weight, great visibility, easy on tires, epic drives.

The down sides are crap tranny, good though limited parts avialability. You would have much more choice with a Porsche, but I found you spend more with them too.

Overall I have to say I LOVE this car. When I get my track buddies in the car they love it too. It's not just fast, it's the way it goes fast that is so rewarding.

Best of luck
 

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When people at a track event ask me about the Mustang versus the 2-11... I describe the Mustang as driving a "pissed off bull" and my Lotus as an "adult enduro cart".


I'm honestly not sure which one I like "better" because they're inherently different in every way. I have way more seat time in the Mustang - but other than having a lot of power and it makes big noise... It doesn't do anything particularly well.... The 2-11 seems to do everything well.... brakes - cornering - overall handling - sense of "one with the car"... It "feels" like a race car but without the high price and without the "high strung" nature. It's much more like the Formula Mazda open wheel cars I've driven. Mine is a single center seat conversion and I really like that sense of driving from the middle of the car.

It will be very interesting to run Sonoma on the Yokohama's.
 

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Great Analogy ... "secret society for the insane"
You do have to be careful , it does does start to take over .
I started with and Aerial Atom with Rover K engine ... It was the 3rd car produced by Aerial and had so many problems and was so slow it only lasted 6 months , traded in for a 2005 Exige 2ZZ NA and the modifications and track time started from there .
Have had the 211 for 5 years and have just about completed a full upgrade Including Rev400 with Front Hex / Dry Sump / Quaife Sequential / Full Roll cage /Braid Wheels / Dunlop slicks / and also looking to go with EP uprights and Penske shocks .
Have left the engine stock at present but looking to have BOE build up something special for the folowing seson
Hope to start testing next month and be back on the track for our coming summer season [ Winter in NZ now]
What am I a hoping to achieve ... a reduction of 3 seconds per lap !!!
Heres an pic of the Engine bay ... in mocked up form .. need to take some more pics .


And just in case you don't think I am committed .. here is a pic of another build I have under way .. it was supposed to be finished this year but the 211 got precedence !!
Elise S2 with K20 SC / EP sequential etc etc Full Race build ...
 
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