The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
338 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
After test driving the Elise I am still on the fence, especially since Lotus has increased the price, and now I am reading about all the problems owners are having with the Elise. Talk about poor quality control.
I have now begun to research the Noble sports car and have read only great things about it. Has anyone out there had a chance to drive the Noble???? Apparently it is one of the best handling cars out there, just as the Elise is. The Noble has absolutely no under steer and can out perform most super cars. I realize that it also costs a lot more than the Elise, however it might be worth it if it has that much more performance.
I am assuming that the Noble would beat the Elise around a racetrack if the drivers were equally skilled.
I would love to hear from anyone who has experienced both cars and can give me their opinions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
I have driven the Noble and the fed Elise within the last two weeks.

The Elise will cost you between $45-50K after tax and the Noble will cost you between $93 and $100K after tax depending on what options you get.

There is no comparison between the two cars.

The Elise feels like you are driving a chevy Tahoe after driving the Noble. That was my intial thought. That is more to do with the power than the handling.

The power of the Noble is like no other car i have driven. I can only really compare to a Carrera 4/ Carrera Turbo. There is so much pull in every gear it is unbelievable. It mashes your head back and leaves you with a massive grin. The sound coming from the Turbos is fantastic. You go between 20 and 100 in a blink of an eye.

Handling wise the Noble feels more stable to me. It feels a little more centered and a bit heavier so I just felt safer pushing it around the bends. The car makes you appear to be a good driver.

If you go to www.igracing.com read the review from a british magazine Autocar or autoweek. The review the M400 and the Elise... pretty interesting what they say.

The long wait, increasing price is pushing me towards Noble. The biggest concern I have would be trying to sell the car if I needed to....I am not sure if I could get muc money back for it...

There is one on ebay right now:

Noble for sale on ebay

If you are still interested in an Elise check out mine if you want it:
Magnetic Blue for sale
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
If you are really interested in the Noble - call Dean at igracing and tell him Dodgy referred you - he will se up a test drive.

he is a great guy! He got me to the airport ( a 45 minute journey) in about 23 minutes. I was afraid!

If you want to watch some great videos of the Noble go to Jousts web page:
Jousts noble site

Also check out the Noble forum on Pistonheads:
Noble Forum

Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,253 Posts
dodgy_01 said:
The Elise feels like you are driving a chevy Tahoe after driving the Noble. That was my intial thought. That is more to do with the power than the handling.

The power of the Noble is like no other car i have driven. I can only really compare to a Carrera 4/ Carrera Turbo.
The Chevy Tahoe part seems a little harsh, but I know what you are talking about regarding the Porsche Turbo. I had a chance to take a ride in a 993 twin turbo a few months back, and I've stopped trying to explain how it felt, one word comes to mind "Violent!" I am sure the Noble is the same or better. But I am afraid we are comparing apples to to seedless grapes here. $50k vs $90k. For the price, I would take the Lotus. But then again I have never driven a Noble and I don't have a $90k budget.

Neil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,244 Posts
Is the Noble street legal in the US? I didn't think it was but I don't know. I want something I can drive in the hills around here!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,802 Posts
Cerven,
It's imported like caterhams, ie sans engine.

Mav,

It seems like if 100k is your price range that adds a lot of other cars to the mix. Especially cars with warranties and some level of dealer support.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
dodgy_01 said:
I have driven the Noble and the fed Elise within the last two weeks.

The Elise will cost you between $45-50K after tax and the Noble will cost you between $93 and $100K after tax depending on what options you get.
That's the M400 though, right? The GTO-3R is less by about $10k or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,175 Posts
I, too have been able to make a direct comparison between the Federal Elise and the Noble M12 by visiting 1g. I have also driven S1 and S2 Elise variants in the UK, and while it's clear the Federal Elise is the best Elise ever (except perhaps in the subjective styling department) it still falls far short of the Noble. And it's not just about the numbers--IMO, and as reported in the media, the feel and driving experience of the Noble are hard to match, independent of cost. The car is so competent and responsive you have to think of it more as a sports racer designed for the street than just another supercar.
So I went to my local Lotus dealer, SVAG, and cnacelled my MSRP-deposit in favor the Noble. BTW, when I first got on their list 6 months ago, the standard line was there would be a 2-year wait--when I told them I wanted my money back, the line suddenly became "we'll have a car for you in 3-6 months, at MSRP". This could just be dealer hype, of course, but threatening to cancel may also be a strategy other listers could try if they're getting tired of waiting:) .
I wasn't swayed, and now I expect to be driving the Noble sometime in Jan '05.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
gotapex - by them time you have added all the options it works out between $93-$100K for the M12 GTO - 3R. It is abit more expensive than I first thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
210 Posts
Joel - what color Noble did you get?

Who is installing your engine and do you have anyone locally who could service your Noble?

Also did the dealer give you your money back on the Elise?

The Tahoe comment may have been a little harsh - Its so hard to put into words what the Noble feels like. Its like being at Disney world on the Grand Prix ride with a caar thats on rails but can go about 180MPH. Frightening and reassuring at the same time.

But where , besides the track can you drive like that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
dodgy_01 said:
gotapex - by them time you have added all the options it works out between $93-$100K for the M12 GTO - 3R. It is abit more expensive than I first thought.
So from Pistonheads:

Minimum chassis M12 $56,700
Start Button $ 128
Metalic Paint $ 375
Immobilizer $ 395

Other options:
Stereo $ 750
Air $ 2,956
Leather Int $ 2,350
Paint Shield $ 1,900

Duratec: $ 5,000
Snakebite parts kit & transmission: $13,800 (all M12 parts (long list) plus track pan, gauges, LSD extras)

So $76,398 plus additions if you get stereo (better can be put in for cheaper, plus it's already pre-wired), leather interior (I prefer alcantera), air conditioning (take it or leave it), and paint shield (3M bra, I'm guessing).

So it's almost $17k labor ($93k - $76k or $100k - $84k) to put in engine? Ouch, more than I expected. Or are the pistonhead prices off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,175 Posts
First on the price--the options/costs gotapex listed are correct. With an appropriate option list and a professional drivetrain installation, my Noble will be drivable for about $80K. The drivetrain install will be done by a local shop that has worked with 1g for a number of years. Based on inquiries I've made, I really don't see a problem with follow-up service and 1g's warranty. As for driving the Noble, I freely admit to not being the least bit interested in its top speed capabilities (except to answer the inevitible questions :D ), but I do know how to have a lot of fun using it in the 40-80 MPH range on the right kind of roads. Plus there are many local opportunities for open track day sessions that can ease frustrations with the clogged freeways in NorCal. BTW, the car will be dark metallic green, and I did get my full deposit back on the Elise (a credit to my CC posted within 2 days of my request).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
zvezdah1 said:
Cerven,
It's imported like caterhams, ie sans engine.

Mav,

It seems like if 100k is your price range that adds a lot of other cars to the mix. Especially cars with warranties and some level of dealer support.

Chris
Agreed, ever heard of a GT3? A few seconds faster than an Elise, a couple seconds slower than a Noble, much more practical and less of a headache. The next GT3 should be around sometime in 2005, have over 400 hp and will close the gap in lap times between the current GT3 and the Noble. In addition these cars should be quite reliable. Most teams for the one lap of America bring tons of tools and support, a GT3 was run bone stock with basically no support and placed 3rd. The fact that the stock car did so well and didn't require any maintenance during the grueling event greatly impresses me. Darn I wish I could afford one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,802 Posts
JS Elise,
I know this has been hashed out on Puresports car but is it really even fair to compare a maxed out 50K elise to the 90-100k Noble?? It seems more reasonable to compare to the GT3 or other comparably priced car.

Chris
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
338 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
build quality...???

I was wondering if the build quality of the Noble will be any better than the Elise?? It seems that there have been many problems with the Elise, and from reading all the posts it seems that Lotus should redesign their a/c system if apparently all the cars are affected by an intermittent problem. I always thought that a hand built vehicle was better than one by robots mass production, i.e. Rolls etc. Well I know at least one part of the Elise that will be trouble free and that is the drive train, since it is Toyota sourced.
And all that crap I have read about when buying a Lotus you should expect little things to go wrong, it is part of the heritage of Lotus that is a bunch of bullshit. Paying that much for this car, it should have better quality than most cars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
Build quality on the Noble is top-notch, incl paint and interior.

I saw it at the Monterey Historics and it was quite nice. Magazines praise the quality highly

I am toying with the idea as well, but at nearly 100K it's a lot to pay for a 'kit car,' and resale will be horrendous unless they start to market the car more aggressively

I would agree with the statement above that the GT3 is probably a better bet all around. It's the only modern Porsche that I would consider, and I think it'll be a keeper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,744 Posts
Re: build quality...???

Maverick1 said:
I was wondering if the build quality of the Noble will be any better than the Elise?? It seems that there have been many problems with the Elise, and from reading all the posts it seems that Lotus should redesign their a/c system if apparently all the cars are affected by an intermittent problem. I always thought that a hand built vehicle was better than one by robots mass production, i.e. Rolls etc. Well I know at least one part of the Elise that will be trouble free and that is the drive train, since it is Toyota sourced.
And all that crap I have read about when buying a Lotus you should expect little things to go wrong, it is part of the heritage of Lotus that is a bunch of bullshit. Paying that much for this car, it should have better quality than most cars.
Elise vs Noble. Well the Noble is quicker and few cars will come close to it’s level of performance and while it handles great you will feel the extra 200 – 300 lbs. As for build quality of the Noble being better than that of the Elise, that’s another story... If you mean fit and finish then it’s a toss of the coin. If however you are talking reliability then the Liz is the clear winner. I have entertained the Noble and have lurked on the Noble board for some time. The cars are great but their problems seem to out weigh those of the Elise in both quantity and seriousness. Nobles also only come with a one year warranty and finding a good mechanic to perform the work on the Noble’s highly tuned motor may be a problem, as whomever you get will most likely never have worked on a Noble before.

Pictures don’t really do the Noble much justice. It never seems to come out as good as it does in the flesh. While I do like the way the Noble looks, I think it looks cheap when compared to the Elise. While the Noble looks kinda kitcarish the Elise looks kinda Ferrari Dino. The interior while not as bad in person is not up to the standards one would expect of a $80k - $100k sports car.

Lastly practicality... That’s a word that simple cannot be applied to the Noble M12 3R or M400. The convertible does have a small trunk, but I have not seen that in the flesh so the jury is still out. The luggage that is available for the Noble will not help if you're simply running down the road to pick up a few groceries. The lack of practicality means the Noble is more of a track car and less of a street car IMO.
Should you decide to take your shiny new Noble on a long trip I think you will discover the seats are a far cry form comfortable. The M400 is a different story since the seats have been upgraded.

In the end it really depends on what you’re looking for. If you want something very fast that can see occasional street use then the Noble is tough to beat. If your seeking something mainly for the street I think there are better choices than the Noble. Like wise if you are looking for a track only car the Radical will walk all over the Noble all day long for less than half the money.

PS: If you expect the Noble to be as reliable as the Elise you are gonna be very disappointed. From what I’ve heard reliability wise, comparing the Noble to the Elise would be like comparing the Elise to a Honda.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
338 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
thanks Derek for the info

Unfortunately the Noble is a little out of my price range right now, and that's why I was leaning more toward the elise. I wish the elise had a little more power, say around 230 hp. That would make it that much quicker on the straights where it now lacks power. Around corners it is already very quick.
It's too bad Lotus did not put the Honda S2000 engine into the Elise, now that would be an awesome car. Any chance the honda engine would fit???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
97 Posts
The noble is way out of my range also, but just out of curiosity--how is the interior room compared to the Elise (for those who have driven both, obviously).
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top