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Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin

  • Obama/Biden

    Votes: 103 41.0%
  • McCain/Palin

    Votes: 126 50.2%
  • Other

    Votes: 12 4.8%
  • Not voting

    Votes: 10 4.0%

  • Total voters
    251
  • Poll closed .
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Discussion Starter #3
Obama/Biden for me, and it's basically a one issue deal: I want us out of Iraq NOW.
 

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Obama/Biden for me, and it's basically a one issue deal: I want us out of Iraq NOW.
I have 10 years of experience as a combat aviator in the U.S. Army. I was involved in several classified briefings related to the mission. I can tell you that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the U.S. public has the infomation necessary to make a good judgement call regarding when a good time would be to pull out of the region.
 

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I have 10 years of experience as a combat aviator in the U.S. Army. I was involved in several classified briefings related to the mission. I can tell you that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the U.S. public has the infomation necessary to make a good judgement call regarding when a good time would be to pull out of the region.
Agreed, though I think what motivates the 'out of Iraq' sentiment for many is more than just whether it's a 'good time' to pull out. For me, it's the fact that we're borrowing money to pay for that war. If we truly need to be at war, fine, but don't sacrifice the future stability of this country to pay for it. Raise taxes so we pay for it *now*. Either that or get the heck out.
 

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Agreed, though I think what motivates the 'out of Iraq' sentiment for many is more than just whether it's a 'good time' to pull out. For me, it's the fact that we're borrowing money to pay for that war. If we truly need to be at war, fine, but don't sacrifice the future stability of this country to pay for it. Raise taxes so we pay for it *now*. Either that or get the heck out.
Well said.
 

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Funny, it calculates your tax cut, if you get one, but for me it only says I'm not getting one, not how much may tax raise will be. :panic:
That sucks, left wing bullsh1t spin.(and im left-ish myself) We both know your taxes will go up some, but the bulk of his tax increase is based off capitol gains tax I believe.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I can tell you that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the U.S. public has the information necessary to make a good judgment call regarding when a good time would be to pull out of the region.
A good time to pull out? It doesn't matter to me what a 'good time to pull out' would be.

Obviously a good time to pull out would be when there is no longer any violence in the region, everything is stable, every Iraqi loves us, Iraq has a completely functioning infrastructure, a democratically elected government, etc.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THAT.

We went to Iraq based on lies and misinformation.

Yes, Sadam was a bastard. Yes he was violating UN resolutions. BUT, I WASN'T PAYING FOR IT. Sure, in a really remote way, the fact that Iraq had an evil dictator made a minor difference in my life (I don't like suffering of anyone), but it didn't effect me the way this unjustified war does. Today our dollar is worth less than the Loony. WTF?

When OTHER countries use lies an misinformation to wage unjustified war, we try their leaders as war criminals. We have lost an AMAZING amount of respect in the world community because of this war.

I also served our country (during the first gulf war) and I'm a very strong supporter of our troops and military. That doesn't mean that I will support continuing an unjustified war.

Do you think we should stay in Iraq? Why?
 

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Please use sanity. We are going to be out of Iraq soon enough and once that happens...then what will you care about? Taxes, economy...all of a sudden that one issue will not seem so important!!

Obama/Biden for me, and it's basically a one issue deal: I want us out of Iraq NOW.
 

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That sucks, left wing bullsh1t spin.(and im left-ish myself) We both know your taxes will go up some, but the bulk of his tax increase is based off capitol gains tax I believe.
No, the bulk of my tax increase, should he be elected and should he get everything he wants from the Congress would come from a dramatic rise in my SS taxes, which I would never recover in benefits. My personal income taxes would rise as well, but not as dramatically.
 

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Please use sanity. We are going to be out of Iraq soon enough and once that happens...then what will you care about? Taxes, economy...all of a sudden that one issue will not seem so important!!
IF you think Mccain and his first term governor will improve the economy you are a nutjob
 

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No, the bulk of my tax increase, should he be elected and should he get everything he wants from the Congress would come from a dramatic rise in my SS taxes, which I would never recover in benefits. My personal income taxes would rise as well, but not as dramatically.
+1...my personal income tax will go up, as will my SS tax and capital gains tax

but as Obama said, we cant leave the poor to pick themselves up by their bootstraps - that is for the wealthy to do....
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Funny, it calculates your tax cut, if you get one, but for me it only says I'm not getting one, not how much may tax raise will be. :panic:
Congrats on a $500K/year income (Or more than $350K I suppose). I also noticed that the numbers in the drop down are a little wonky. $200K to $500K is a big jump...
 

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No, the bulk of my tax increase, should he be elected and should he get everything he wants from the Congress would come from a dramatic rise in my SS taxes, which I would never recover in benefits. My personal income taxes would rise as well, but not as dramatically.
Why would you never recover those? His plan is to restore SS, the republicans are the ones who want to bankrupt it.

Im sure you are maxing out IRAs and your 401k if you have one anyways. Privatization will only ensure that the middle class have nothing when it comes time to retire, because most of them are living paycheck to paycheck and not saving or investing for their future.

If republicans privatize SS, you will have indeed lost all that you (and everyone one else still working) have payed into the system in your lifetime.
 

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A good time to pull out? It doesn't matter to me what a 'good time to pull out' would be.

Obviously a good time to pull out would be when there is no longer any violence in the region, everything is stable, every Iraqi loves us, Iraq has a completely functioning infrastructure, a democratically elected government, etc.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR THAT.

We went to Iraq based on lies and misinformation.

Yes, Sadam was a bastard. Yes he was violating UN resolutions. BUT, I WASN'T PAYING FOR IT. Sure, in a really remote way, the fact that Iraq had an evil dictator made a minor difference in my life (I don't like suffering of anyone), but it didn't effect me the way this unjustified war does. Today our dollar is worth less than the Loony. WTF?

When OTHER countries use lies an misinformation to wage unjustified war, we try their leaders as war criminals. We have lost an AMAZING amount of respect in the world community because of this war.

I also served our country (during the first gulf war) and I'm a very strong supporter of our troops and military. That doesn't mean that I will support continuing an unjustified war.

Do you think we should stay in Iraq? Why?
I have been away from that theater for a few years now and I do not know if our presence there is still a good idea or not.
I think, however, that you may be missing the point. Forget about money, justified vs. unjustified etc... The real concern is the future security of our nation. What I learned is that there is a very large group of people out there who are intent on destroying the American way of life and who hate what we believe in. True, to date your life here has been affected little by the likes of Sadaam. However, I am convinced that in the future this will not be the case unless we do something about it. If we leave there, I'll bet the fight will come here (eventually).
 

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Why would you never recover those? His plan is to restore SS, the republicans are the ones who want to bankrupt it.

Im sure you are maxing out IRAs and your 401k if you have one anyways. Privatization will only ensure that the middle class have nothing when it comes time to retire, because most of them are living paycheck to paycheck and not saving or investing for their future.

If republicans privatize SS, you will have indeed lost all that you (and everyone one else still working) have payed into the system in your lifetime.
Because his plan is to unbuckle those contributions made above $250,000 from benefits, a first for any Presidential candidate.

Look, I get it, by his and your standards I'm "rich" and I am sucking caviar from the teet of the working class. From my perspective, I've worked very hard to be in the top percentage of wage earners and already contribute an unholy amount in taxes that I won't go into here.

We'll just agree that we are not going to agree, ok? :)
 

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We went to Iraq based on lies and misinformation.

Yes, Sadam was a bastard. Yes he was violating UN resolutions. BUT, I WASN'T PAYING FOR IT. Sure, in a really remote way, the fact that Iraq had an evil dictator made a minor difference in my life (I don't like suffering of anyone), but it didn't effect me the way this unjustified war does. Today our dollar is worth less than the Loony. WTF?

When OTHER countries use lies an misinformation to wage unjustified war, we try their leaders as war criminals. We have lost an AMAZING amount of respect in the world community because of this war.

I'm a very strong supporter of our troops and military. That doesn't mean that I will support continuing an unjustified war.
+1

You speak my mind.

And millions and millions of others out and in the U.S.
 

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Because his plan is to unbuckle those contributions made above $250,000 from benefits, a first for any Presidential candidate.

Look, I get it, by his and your standards I'm "rich" and I am sucking caviar from the teet of the working class. From my perspective, I've worked very hard to be in the top percentage of wage earners and already contribute an unholy amount in taxes that I won't go into here.

We'll just agree that we are not going to agree, ok? :)

RGR that, wish we lived closer we could finish it off with a nice drive:shift:
 
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