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Discussion Starter #1
If we have the same 2ZZGE Toyota engine as the Celica and Toyota recommends 10w-40 synthetic oil for their cars, what makes Lotus recommend the esoteric, hard to find 5w-40 oil in our cars? Is there something different about the engine itself or is it based on the presumption that Lotus drivers will more likely operate the vehicles at more demanding conditions and higher temps?
Any thoughts?
 

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The first number represents the flow rate of the oil when cold. Thus when cold, the 10W-40 flows like a 10 weight oil and the 5W-40 flows like a 5 weight oil (lower viscosity... thinner... flows more easily). At temperature, both flow like a 40 weight oil. With the Elise/Exige having nearly twice the volume of oil as the Celica and oil cooler(s), it takes considerably longer for the oil to come up to temperature, so I guess they specify a lower cold rating oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
In that case, if I live in a significantly hotter climate - Hawaii for instance where it never gets below 65 deg in the winter, a heavier weight might be fine? or better?
 

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OK

this subject has been beaten to death many times before.........read the manual where it tells you that they recommend 5w40.........I am sure they did not come up with that weight after a long night of drinking.........however with that said it is your car so put whatever you think will work for your particular area and driving style!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
this subject has been beaten to death many times before.........read the manual where it tells you that they recommend 5w40.........I am sure they did not come up with that weight after a long night of drinking.........however with that said it is your car so put whatever you think will work for your particular area and driving style!
I did read all the threads on oil selection. Couldn't find any specific info on what might be physically different on our engines vs the toyota vehicles.
I was hoping someone with keen insight and the desire to further educate our online community would step up and enlighten us. Innovation and technological progression all springs from someone questioning the status quo. To blindly follow others results in stagnation and decline.
I think therefore I am.
 

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5W-40 oil is not hard to find for most of us.

I've been using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck for years. It has all the properties Lotus requires and is available at most auto parts stores.

Here is the link to the product: Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40

Highly recommended.

Regards,
Wayne
 

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I found Castrol Syntec 5w40 at my local Pep Boys and after reading the owner's manual it appears to meet all req's... my 2 cents :)
 

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sure in the Celica

To OP, Toyota asks for 5w-30 on the 2ZZ-GE, not 10w40 or 5w40
but in the Lotus manual it specifically says that it requires 5w40.......and like I said above, I am pretty sure that it was not a misprint!.....probably has something to do with oil flow to the coolers etc......
 

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To OP, Toyota asks for 5w-30 on the 2ZZ-GE, not 10w40 or 5w40
Toyota is worried about Corporate Average Fuel Economy (thinner oil gives slightly better fuel mileage), not performance, and as pointed out elsewhere, our cars have oil coolers although I'm not sure what difference that would make.
 

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Toyota is worried about Corporate Average Fuel Economy (thinner oil gives slightly better fuel mileage), not performance, and as pointed out elsewhere, our cars have oil coolers although I'm not sure what difference that would make.
I agree, just correcting the OP that said toyota asks for 10w40

I personally use 5w30 for dd and 5w40 for track days.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To OP, Toyota asks for 5w-30 on the 2ZZ-GE, not 10w40 or 5w40
OOps my typo. You are correct. 5w-30 it is per Toyota specs.
So, no probs running it for DD?

Ah, I see you are driving a Celica, so that is within Toyota spec.
 

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OOps my typo. You are correct. 5w-30 it is per Toyota specs.
So, no probs running it for DD?

Ah, I see you are driving a Celica, so that is within Toyota spec.
Not at all. And I'm supercharged. I do use 5w40 for track days, but thats 2 or 3 times a year.

Like the other guys said, Toyota ask thinner due to better gas mileage and Lotus asks for heavier due to the more "trackable" nature of the car. If its just your daily driver, 5w30 won't harm it, read the celica, matrix etc forums, there has never been failure due to using toyota's recommendation.

Honestly, if you really want to know if an oil is doing good for your engine. Do an oil test. They are cheap. Take a look at Blackstone Labs
 

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5 - 50 W synthetic oil

I just wanted to pass this on. I have a 2006 Elise and decided to change from the factory recommended 5-40 synthetic oil to 5-50. The 50 makes a difference for the worse. The heavier oil, although seemingly slightly more viscous, caused mysterious issues with DTC codes and idle. The car would not hold an idle when warm - simply stalled. It got worse the hotter the ambient air got. I had to constantly keep my foot on the gas when stopped. The car would then throw out occasional poo12 errors - camshaft over retarded bank one.

So I replaced the vvt assembly on the end of the intake camshaft as well as the vvt oil control valve, had the static timing checked on 2 separate occasions, etc. For 2 years this problem drove me crazy.

Then last weekend I changed the oil back to 5-40W synthetic. I did this because my local shop was out of 5-50w - dumb luck.

Miracle! The problem went away. It's been 5 days now and all is finally back to normal. It seems to make sense now. A 50% duty cycle applied to the oil control valve will hold the valve current timing by preventing oil flow from the VVT controller housing, a duty cycle less than 50% will retard the valve
timing, a duty cycle greater then 50% will advance the valve timing. Apparently the thicker oil by nature causes more pressure in the valve resulting in the oil control portion to not cycle as much. When it dips below 50% cycle, the DTC is thrown. It's sort of analogous to blowing into a small straw. Heavier oil, like a small straw, results in you not having to blow as hard (less of a duty cycle) than expected to keep the VVT actuator assembly open. That lack of duty cycle trips the code tricking the ECU to think there's a poo12 problem.

The bad idle is a byproduct of the ECU trying desperately to make the valve duty cycle, cam position sensor reading, fuel flow, idle position, etc. all make sense at any instant. The ECU finally thinks the culprit is the VVT assembly and throws the code. I think the ECU is calibrated for thinner oil (factory recommended). Since the oil is thinner at operating temperature compared to the 5-50 w oil, the duty cycle increases to it's pre-programmed ideal and the ECU is happy.

Like I said, when I changed the oil weight back, the problem went away. It's like I have a new car. No idle problems, no codes.

So for anyone who thinks they want to move to 5-50, my recommendation is NO. I have also read that the oil return holes' small diameter can also result in pooling of heavier oil in the heads.
 

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I did read all the threads on oil selection. Couldn't find any specific info on what might be physically different on our engines vs the toyota vehicles.
I was hoping someone with keen insight and the desire to further educate our online community would step up and enlighten us. Innovation and technological progression all springs from someone questioning the status quo. To blindly follow others results in stagnation and decline.
I think therefore I am.
I wouldn't want to challenge the status quo on a topic that can ruin your engine. If you think you can one-up not just Toyota engineering but also Lotus, go for it. But I think there are many other areas for trial and error that won't have a chance of ruining the engine.
 

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I just wanted to pass this on. I have a 2006 Elise and decided to change from the factory recommended 5-40 synthetic oil to 5-50. The 50 makes a difference for the worse. The heavier oil, although seemingly slightly more viscous, caused mysterious issues with DTC codes and idle. The car would not hold an idle when warm - simply stalled. It got worse the hotter the ambient air got. I had to constantly keep my foot on the gas when stopped. The car would then throw out occasional poo12 errors - camshaft over retarded bank one.

So I replaced the vvt assembly on the end of the intake camshaft as well as the vvt oil control valve, had the static timing checked on 2 separate occasions, etc. For 2 years this problem drove me crazy.

Then last weekend I changed the oil back to 5-40W synthetic. I did this because my local shop was out of 5-50w - dumb luck.

Miracle! The problem went away. It's been 5 days now and all is finally back to normal. It seems to make sense now. A 50% duty cycle applied to the oil control valve will hold the valve current timing by preventing oil flow from the VVT controller housing, a duty cycle less than 50% will retard the valve
timing, a duty cycle greater then 50% will advance the valve timing. Apparently the thicker oil by nature causes more pressure in the valve resulting in the oil control portion to not cycle as much. When it dips below 50% cycle, the DTC is thrown. It's sort of analogous to blowing into a small straw. Heavier oil, like a small straw, results in you not having to blow as hard (less of a duty cycle) than expected to keep the VVT actuator assembly open. That lack of duty cycle trips the code tricking the ECU to think there's a poo12 problem.

The bad idle is a byproduct of the ECU trying desperately to make the valve duty cycle, cam position sensor reading, fuel flow, idle position, etc. all make sense at any instant. The ECU finally thinks the culprit is the VVT assembly and throws the code. I think the ECU is calibrated for thinner oil (factory recommended). Since the oil is thinner at operating temperature compared to the 5-50 w oil, the duty cycle increases to it's pre-programmed ideal and the ECU is happy.

Like I said, when I changed the oil weight back, the problem went away. It's like I have a new car. No idle problems, no codes.

So for anyone who thinks they want to move to 5-50, my recommendation is NO. I have also read that the oil return holes' small diameter can also result in pooling of heavier oil in the heads.
Hmmm ... interesting ... but have you replaced the VVT and VVTL-I filters? I believe they are supposed to be replaced every 30K miles (but don't quote me).
 
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