The Lotus Cars Community banner

41 - 54 of 54 Posts

·
He's on fire!
Joined
·
3,206 Posts
All in all it is difficult to answer questions because the install base is so small. Very few owners modify the sandwich plate and those that do are much more likely to go down an established path rather than try a new one.

As for how long is "ok" for warmup, it really depends on conditions where you are. For example, if the ambient temperature is 0* C out, 20min might not be enough time, where if its hot out, its probably more than enough time. The best way to tell if you have a problem with cams, before damage occurs, is to look at them by taking off the valve cover. I don't see in the toyota manual where it recommends replacing the valve cover gasket every time, but it does recommend replacing the points that are sealed by liquid gasket every time. Do you absolutely have to? Well no, but then its possible you'll have a small oil leak where you should have applied the liquid gasket.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
493 Posts
I have the Mishimoto sandwich plate with 200 tstat, and a 19 row rear mounted oil cooler. I also have the Boe aluminum oil pan. With this setup the car still ran too cool at highway speeds 150-160F, in town it would get up to about 180F, the aluminum oil pan definitely causes the engine to run cooler. I have now added a bit of insulating mat around the bottom part of the oil pan, and the temps are now perfect 190-200 whether I am in town or on the highway.
1263271
1263272
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robocop305

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,354 Posts
Thanks so much for posting this, this is what I was wondering, and the solution I had posited for it. As I mentioned, several people with Alloy pans had difficulty keeping oil temps up, and I think you have proved it is not an anomaly, and that it can be fixed. It would not have been obvious to me that an alloy pan would dissipate heat so much better.

I will say that, after several years and something like 15k miles, if you do not have an oil temp gauge, after the Mishimoto conversion this is my suggestion:

What is the coolant temp when you look at the gauge? Mine was 184, if I looked at my gauge, in average conditions, that is what it was going to say. After I changed ECU's it moved to 189, no thermostat or sender change, so, I am going to assume that cars vary.

So, anyway, with the new Mishimoto sandwich plate, when my car is up to its normal temp, the oil temp is high enough to get on the cam, in my experience.


I have the Mishimoto sandwich plate with 200 tstat, and a 19 row rear mounted oil cooler. I also have the Boe aluminum oil pan. With this setup the car still ran too cool at highway speeds 150-160F, in town it would get up to about 180F, the aluminum oil pan definitely causes the engine to run cooler. I have now added a bit of insulating mat around the bottom part of the oil pan, and the temps are now perfect 190-200 whether I am in town or on the highway.
View attachment 1263271 View attachment 1263272
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
493 Posts
Forgot to mention, I have a 170* coolant water Testat, so my engine temps are 178-184 depending on ambient temp and speed of car.
 

·
Premium Member
2006 Exige
Joined
·
58 Posts
Thanks so much for posting this, this is what I was wondering, and the solution I had posited for it. As I mentioned, several people with Alloy pans had difficulty keeping oil temps up, and I think you have proved it is not an anomaly, and that it can be fixed. It would not have been obvious to me that an alloy pan would dissipate heat so much better.

I will say that, after several years and something like 15k miles, if you do not have an oil temp gauge, after the Mishimoto conversion this is my suggestion:

What is the coolant temp when you look at the gauge? Mine was 184, if I looked at my gauge, in average conditions, that is what it was going to say. After I changed ECU's it moved to 189, no thermostat or sender change, so, I am going to assume that cars vary.

So, anyway, with the new Mishimoto sandwich plate, when my car is up to its normal temp, the oil temp is high enough to get on the cam, in my experience.
Thanks so much for posting this, this is what I was wondering, and the solution I had posited for it. As I mentioned, several people with Alloy pans had difficulty keeping oil temps up, and I think you have proved it is not an anomaly, and that it can be fixed. It would not have been obvious to me that an alloy pan would dissipate heat so much better.

I will say that, after several years and something like 15k miles, if you do not have an oil temp gauge, after the Mishimoto conversion this is my suggestion:

What is the coolant temp when you look at the gauge? Mine was 184, if I looked at my gauge, in average conditions, that is what it was going to say. After I changed ECU's it moved to 189, no thermostat or sender change, so, I am going to assume that cars vary.

So, anyway, with the new Mishimoto sandwich plate, when my car is up to its normal temp, the oil temp is high enough to get on the cam, in my experience.
I also have aluminum oil pan with increased
air flow to it.A tiny oil cooler and have low oil temps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
I'll add another data point for aluminum oil pans. I completely removed the factory oil cooler, removed the guts from the sandwich plate, and plugged the outlets. I'm still using the sandwich plate to tap for oil pressure and measure temp from the pan. I still rarely see over 85C oil temp when cruising. I'm currently 100% street driving so my spirited drives are usually a short burst to redline in the first few gears. I've seen 95C once and I'm in central Florida. IMO a street driven Elise does not need any oil coolers.
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Elise LSS Saffron Yellow
Joined
·
662 Posts
I'm also running an alloy pan (a first generation gPan), and have an oil temperature sender in it. My solution to the cold oil problem was to go to a water-to-oil intercooler (the 5SFE part that is the ancestor of the unobtainable 2ZZ-GE 'TRD' oil cooler that our cars should have come with). Pan oil temperature now reliably tracks coolant temperature with about a 5 minute warm up delay.

Back in the days of the dual front coolers it was difficult to get the oil temperature above about 70C without lots of idling.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
493 Posts
I'm also running an alloy pan (a first generation gPan), and have an oil temperature sender in it. My solution to the cold oil problem was to go to a water-to-oil intercooler (the 5SFE part that is the ancestor of the unobtainable 2ZZ-GE 'TRD' oil cooler that our cars should have come with). Pan oil temperature now reliably tracks coolant temperature with about a 5 minute warm up delay.

Back in the days of the dual front coolers it was difficult to get the oil temperature above about 70C without lots of idling.
Have you tracked your car with that setup, would be interesting to know how well the TRD exchanger held up under those conditions.
I had the Laminova exchanger on the car before I supercharged it, worked perfect for street, but water temps got bit high on track (212F), decided to go with separate systems with the SC, and the setup I have now works very well.
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Elise LSS Saffron Yellow
Joined
·
662 Posts
Have you tracked your car with that setup, would be interesting to know how well the TRD exchanger held up under those conditions.
I had the Laminova exchanger on the car before I supercharged it, worked perfect for street, but water temps got bit high on track (212F), decided to go with separate systems with the SC, and the setup I have now works very well.
Worth noting that this is the same cooler that came on a) all UK and Europe NA 2ZZ-GE Eliges and b) the UK/Europe and Australia 2ZZ-GE Celicas as well. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to figure out where people generally drive their cars harder - the USA or EU and Australia.

When Lotus federalized the Elise they actually applied the same oil cooling package (dual front air-oil coolers) that was developed for the Persian Gulf market. The only difference is the second air conditioner evaporator on the firewall. I'm pretty sure they were thinking ahead to the Exige relaunch and the S model Elise as well. It's vastly too much cooling for a normally aspirated 2ZZ-GE car in North America.

I anticipate that the TRD / 5S-FE cooler I'm running will probably meet the needs of any normally aspirated Elige not driven at sustained speeds above 160 KM/h with ambient temperatures above 40 C Including track use. That said, There's a big difference between dissipating the heat from making 190 HP and that from making 240 HP with a blower with its parasitic losses. I'd guess that (if you wanted to stick with the Toyota factory oil cooler solution) the larger oil-water cooler from a 3S-GTE would be more appropriate, as that engine is blown and also makes about 250HP.

The smaller Laminova seems to have about the same amount of wetted area as the Toyota solution. I expect it would be about equally good. I went with the Toy cooler because I had one lying around - they're brazed stainless steel and very stout, so I wasn't worried about durability. My goal was to get the oil warm sooner and keep it at a desirable temperature and it definitely does that.
 

·
Premium Member
2006 Exige
Joined
·
58 Posts
I also ran the oil cooler that Lotus used in Europe while tracking my
car last year.I still had low oil temps.207 peak at Thomson at 96 deg
ambient temp.typical temps only 180.
I have an gpan3 which is all aluminum and full depth
across the bottom.The Moroso pan is not full depth across it's
bottom.I mention this because it's less oil capacity and less
surface area to radiate heat so if you have that you may not
get same results.I also have courser screens in my side scoops
to let more air in and removed insulation on license plate holder
to let it out.I also use a big oil filter Mobile 209A.This winter
I removed the Toyota heat exchanger and
IMG_4483.jpeg
put in one I made.
It's still an oil to water exchanger but has less capacity.
My car is N/A and dynode at 12HP over stock.I will update
when it gets hot.These posts are making me wonder if
all that's needed for na cars is alum pan, big oil filter
and some enhanced air flow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoHo and CRG53

·
Premium Member
2005 Elise LSS Saffron Yellow
Joined
·
662 Posts
These posts are making me wonder if
all that's needed for na cars is alum pan, big oil filter and some enhanced air flow.
For an NA street car - probably. For track use, you're going to need some sort of oil cooler unless it's a fast track with big sweepers. In my case the plan was to use the cooling water to warm the oil faster on cold days for street use, and it seems to do well at that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
453 Posts
FYI, upon taking my engine apart recently, I found the Mishimoto seal was fractured. It was still sealing, but the material had ruptured due to the compressive load.





I knew this was likely to occur when I received the kit. Filling a square groove with a square sealing ring that protrudes out of the groove means all of the compressive load goes through the sealing ring and no metal to metal contact is made.



Mishimoto should have opened the Parker o-ring design guide and designed a proper o-ring interface. Instead they produced something that will loose preload and sealing ability over time as the rubber ages and creeps.

I'm ordering some -228 o-rings and similar metric sizes in buna-n rubber. One of these o-rings should fill the groove nicely and allow the housing to touch the engine block, facilitating a more robust preload interface.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
493 Posts
I had the same experience, and only after 1 year of use. Got a couple of replacement ones from Mishimoto, so far so good, but was thinking the same as you, a good o-ring would be a better option. Please let us know what you come up with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robocop305
41 - 54 of 54 Posts
Top