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Illegal Alien
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Other than indirect potential of air leakage or cold air infiltration due to wind, wind chill is only a mositure evaoration thing so is a living body concern. As to garage temps, it would take days of consistant sub freezing temps to pull the room below 32 deg. I do get concerned about my off site storage building where I keep my race cars (no antifreeze and race rubber), as the only heat is latent sunlight on the roof, walls and tin door, while I am not recording the temps it does seem to hold above freezing dispute some nights in the teens.
 

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Don't know about the P-Zero, but was told by Yokohama engineer that the A048s polymers unravel below a certain temperature. (or something...)

You could ask TR why they wrote that line.
 

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Illegal Alien
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Don't think anyone us disputing that R type compound tires should not be frozen. Question is more does a garage outside of western states bordering Canada much chance of going below 32.

Sorry I reread the OP's post. There can well be an issue with ultra soft compound performance tires stored or used below 32 degrees. Consult TireRack or Pirelli
 

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Don't think anyone us disputing that R type compound tires should not be frozen. Question is more does a garage outside of western states bordering Canada much chance of going below 32.

Sorry I reread the OP's post. There can well be an issue with ultra soft compound performance tires stored or used below 32 degrees. Consult TireRack or Pirelli
For the OP...my Corsa's stayed on the car for 2 winters with the garage temp intermittently below freezing without any problems.

And for Julian...yes, unheated garages here in the northeast can be below freezing for prolonged periods. Except for a few scattered days, my (other) garage has been consistently below freezing since mid-November. The temp in unused, unheated buildings is frequently lower than the outdoor temp anyway.
 

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Cal H
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If it can freeze water in a cup the garage its below freezing. My garage can freeze water. If you don't do what they say I suppose if the tire shows cracking they can deny warranty and liability. They may de-laminate without you seeing anything on the exterior. If you or others get hurt using tires during the summer I suppose they can dump all the fault on you and they remain in the clear citing improper storage. Pirelli themselves invalidate warranty if the tires are used below 45F.

Many forum like Vette and Viper all say if you have the track pack do not let the tires freeze Kuhmo, Toyo, Yoko all have similar warnings about freezing and proper storage during winter months. I would probably do what they say, if not don't cry about it later. After all how long does it take drop the tires and put them in the basement. Other wise put the car in underground or heated storage for the winter
 

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I have always heard to not drive on high performance tire when its freezing out, but I never knew of anybody that had the tire fail while doing this. (on a side note I had heard that a rock could get kicked up and break out the rear window of an Elise, but what are the odds? (for me the odds were 100% a month or so ago.))

Started consulting Dr Google and here is what I am finding.

Summer Tires in Snow Mobil Oil, hmmm there is a tire company I trust :confused:

"A main difference among winter tires, all-season-tires and summer tires is the pliability and durability of their rubber at different temperatures. Tire engineers call it "glass transition temperature:" Get them cold enough and every tire will have the grip of a Formica kitchen counter. For a race tire, it might be 40° Fahrenheit. For a winter tire it could be 60° below zero. Summer tire tread starts becoming Formica-like somewhere just below freezing. Most all-season tires are still pliable below zero, but some "ultra-high-performance all-season" tires start losing grip well before that."

Warns about grip, but not failure.

Getting the Right Tire - Cars.com

"Also crucial to performance-tires' traction are the rubber compounds, which are softer than all-seasons and better able to mold into the pavement's rough texture. The tradeoff is lower treadwear ratings and a shorter lifespan. Soft compounds might sound similar to winter tires, but the chemistry is wildly different: Winter tires are softer at sub-freezing temperatures, but they're too soft at higher temps. Summer tires are soft when it's warm but go hard as a rock in low temps, blowing the traction advantage they'd had on dry and wet pavement and making them downright dangerous on ice and snow. All-wheel drive won't save a car equipped with summer tires in a winter storm."

Again, warns about traction, but not failure.

How about if we check with the tire manufacture themselves

Seasonal Tires | Michelin Tires

"Summer: These tires are primarily designed for high-performance vehicles and provide optimized dry and wet performance levels in a temperate environment. Summer tires are designed for year round usage but should not be used during the winter season where temperatures are colder and approach freezing consistently as their performance would be less than optimal."

Seems to refer to grip, I think. If it were about structural failure I think they would use language stronger than "performance would be less than optimal"

Winter tires for car, SUVs, 4x4s - Snow tires - PIRELLI US

Again this page talks about grip, not structural integrity,

Found this reference for Goodyear

goodyear psb #2011-10

Eagle F1 Supercar G:2 Summer Tires Not Recommended for Winter Use

Goodyear F1 Supercar G:2’s are D.O.T. approved ultra high performance summer tires with track capability. The rubber used in these tires loses flexibility and may develop surface cracks in the tire tread/shoulder area at colder temperatures. Goodyear does not recommend using these high performance summer tires when temperatures drop to approximately 40 deg F (5 deg C) or below, or in snow/ice conditions.


Tire Storage

Follow the general tire storage recommendations in Product Service Bulletin 2010-21, Proper Procedures for the Storage of Tires. Further, it is recommended for these tires to be stored indoors at temperatures above 20 deg F (-7 deg C) when not in use. If the tires have been subject to 20 deg F (-7 deg C) or less, let them warm up in a heated space to at least 40 deg F for 24 hours or more before installation or driving the vehicle. Inflate the tires only after they have been warmed above 40 deg F (5 deg C). Do not place tires near heaters or heating devices used to warm the room where the tires are stored. Do not apply heat or blow heated air directly on the tires. Always inspect tires before use after storage periods as outlined in the Proper Procedures for the Storage of Tires bulletin.
THE GOODYEAR TIRE & RUBBER COMPANY, GOODYEAR CANADA INC.
PRODUCT SERVICE DEPARTMENT

Finally, a tire manufacture who talks about structural issue in cold weather!

So. My 30 min of avoiding work says.

You will be fine if your summer tires get below freezing in the garage.

Driving on summer tires in cold weather is not recommended, and it only takes turning into a corner once to prove this to yourself!

Disclaimer: I am not a tire expert and I did not say at a Holiday Inn Express last night. The above comments are meant for entertainment purposes only. Consult a tire expert/manufacture for legal advice
 

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Cal H
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Pirelli warranty state:
Not covered by warranty
Tire unserviceability caused by tire operation in excess of tire/wheel manufacturers' specifications and recommendations.
Flat Spotting caused by improper transport or storage.
Summer tires used at or below 45F (7C) ambient temperature.

Many recommend not to let these tires freeze or be under load or roll below a certain temp. Regardless of what anyone says its your tires and you do what you feel is right. Its your responsibility not anyone else.
 

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I found that the tyre wear appeared to be faster in the winter than the summer, I assumed that the make up of the compound just did not like the cold, as its just wet and 'warm' at the moment (day time low of around 44.6f) so wear rate should be lower this winter if I am right :UK:
 

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I'm under the impression that heat wears tire faster, which also means that tires wear more on highways than slower roads.
 

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Aren't we assuming here that the speed rating of a tire stored below the mfg.'s
(temperature) specs doesn't go down?

Note what Yokohama said about the unraveling....

This is something worth investigating for those who cannot meet the specs.
 

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As soft R-compound/performance rubber gets cold, it turns very, very brittle and cracks if moved or stressed.

Check out Toyo's document about it for a good picture:

http://toyotires.com/sites/default/files/imce/ColdWeather_TireStorage.pdf

I definitely wouldn't drive on race/performance compound rubber if it were cold out - not only because it wouldn't grip but also because it might crack and break apart.

As for storage, different manufacturers have said different things constantly over the years.

Toyo used to say that their race tires were never to be exposed to temperatures below 32F or they would be unsafe and unwarranted. Now they include the above-linked warning as a sticker on the tire, which says they're just not to be moved, mounted, or unmounted unless it's warmer out.

For what it's worth Tire Rack include the same 32F warning on their site for Toyo tires, even though the actual manufacturer document says otherwise.

Personally I don't risk it and am storing my R-compound tires inside until it's warm, but I know others here in CO with Toyo R888s keep their cars in unheated garages where the temperature gets very low and don't have problems.
 

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Driving them is the issue IMHO. If you don't say these things to consumers they'll do anything. I have an outdoor garage and store my R888, A048's, Hoosiers etc out there. It gets plenty cold out there all winter. I always inspect the tires in spring and have NEVER seen an issue with any tire nor have I noticed degraded performance on first day out. Frankly, the tire companies are making pipedreams about storage. Think of how many tire dealers across the country keep their inventories in old tractor trailers for example. Think of shipping conditions... need me to keep going. For 50% of the country, that requirement is silly. Maybe they have pushed the technology too far if cold weather storage is an issue
 

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Toyo says temperature is the issue, not driving.

Moreover, I don't know, or believe, that the kind of damage about which I was told would be found in any visual inspection.

I always moved the A048s into the basement in winter.

Now, this issue does not effect me.

But, again, for the full story one would contact the tire mfgr....which is what I did.

I wouldn't want to discover that my assumptions are wrong at 140 mph.
 

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Again after doing this for a decade I feel the tire manufactuers are in CYA mode. You don't mention temp people are dumb enough to drive these tires at zero degrees instead of using snow tires (maybe we should change name to "winter tires" or "cold weather tires"). Don't drive in them below 32 is reasonable. Don't store them below 0 is reasonable.

I'll bet you you that 50-75% of these "max/extreme" performance tires have had this safety issue violated on something as innocent as shipping or vehicle transport.
Again, it is the tire manufacturers responsibility for their product to be safe in the vast majority of situations. IMHO all tires should be built to withstand at least 0 degrees. I know what they say.... it is CYA corporate BS or bad science, take your pick!

Stroring the car in a heated garage or pulling off 4 wheels and bringing inside is not a reasonable option and I bet that would get chewed up in court real fast.
 

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Hey, you'll like this: I tried running my RE11s a bit later into winter than normal. (These are great tires for me, who drives in heavy rain on occasion. Not as sticky as A048s, but of course last much longer.)

OK, that experiment was a big mistake. It was about 27 F out and the tires had little grip until I got them warmer.

--

Yes, some tires may be exposed to too-low temps during transport, but this is likely a relatively small amount of time.

If tires had to withstand 0, they might have to be made so as to provide less grip when we want it.

It's no prob for me to change tire and store them inside, but it would be worse for those with apartments...or wives.

I don't agree with your legal opinion, I'm sorry to say. Wouldn't someone who a) knew the deal when buying the product and then b) ignored the manufacturer's warnings have little chance of winning?
 

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Stroring the car in a heated garage or pulling off 4 wheels and bringing inside is not a reasonable option and I bet that would get chewed up in court real fast.
I agree with you for factory-spec/"normal" tires - if something like the OEM tire on BMWs went bad in the cold, there would be a giant uproar.

But R-comps, especially race tires like Hoosiers, aren't even supposed to be driven on the highway. By buying them you're already compromising everything else for raw grip.

A couple more restrictions like "don't store these in the cold" don't seem unreasonable at all given that the consumer has already voted "I want nothing more than raw performance."

I'd much rather have race tires grip better at the track than stay intact in storage.

I do agree that a lot of tires are exposed to cold temperatures in transport and at dealers, but it's worth noting that most dealers don't keep any inventory of R-comps on hand, so they're not exactly sitting in trailers at tire lots across the US. Plus, unmounted tires in transport are hardly exposed to any stress so even if they get cold there's nothing pulling on them to crack them.
 

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I agree with you for factory-spec/"normal" tires - if something like the OEM tire on BMWs went bad in the cold, there would be a giant uproar.

But R-comps, especially race tires like Hoosiers, aren't even supposed to be driven on the highway. By buying them you're already compromising everything else for raw grip.

A couple more restrictions like "don't store these in the cold" don't seem unreasonable at all given that the consumer has already voted "I want nothing more than raw performance."

I'd much rather have race tires grip better at the track than stay intact in storage.

I do agree that a lot of tires are exposed to cold temperatures in transport and at dealers, but it's worth noting that most dealers don't keep any inventory of R-comps on hand, so they're not exactly sitting in trailers at tire lots across the US. Plus, unmounted tires in transport are hardly exposed to any stress so even if they get cold there's nothing pulling on them to crack them.
Point taken
 

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re: R tires in winter

I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

The winters, here, are cold with Dec, Jan and Feb consistently below freezing.

I have had a BMW M5 and M3. I use Pirelly Corsas on both cars. they are great in the summer and OK in spring and autumn.

I do not drive my car if the rain is heavy.

I do drive in the winter, if the temperature is above or close to freezing and the roads are reasonably clean. Once the tire gets warm, the traction is OK to better than average all-season. In milder winters, I would park the car for 2 to 3 weeks max. This winter is very bad, so the car is parked for a month, now.

Snow traction is horrible. Sometimes have to push the car to get out of my smallstreet that is not well plowed.

The rubber is supposed to crack at below freezing. Perhaps it is a little better than the manufacturer's spec. Mine is not cracked.

'Your mileage may vary!'

I know, I am a bit of a radical that way.... I also think that 300hp in an Exige is too little.....
 
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