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Discussion Starter #1
Pics from a Solo2 8-29-2004

We took a ton of pics today at the practice event:

http://www.blackwatchracing.com/solo2_8_29/index.htm

Thanks to Neil and Shinoo for being a great pit crew!

The Hoosiers and SSR's worked great.
Much better than the A048's.

The key to the locking wheel bolt is a bad joke.

The jury is still out on whether it needs an LSD.

Not bad for our first runs on concrete. I think we were competetive with AS times, but a bit off the SS pace.

I'm sure Randy, Neil & Shinoo will have something to add...
 

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Absolutely fabulous to get all these beautiful hires pics - dying to hear more about the car's performance. Thank you!:bow:
 

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Randy and Robert can drive the wheels off the Elise!!! I was very impressed with their car control skills. Great job guys!

For all you AutoX fanatics, get the 3M film on the lower side and front of your Elise. Randy's car had cone marks in all the usual places. The film kept his paint protected. Then again if cone consumption is not a part of your racing diet...;)
 

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Looks like it could use some more negative camber. Doesn't seem bad for a bone stock car, but the outside tires appear to go positive under full cornering. E. g. on this one:

http://www.blackwatchracing.com/solo2_8_29/pages/DSC_0116_JPG.htm

Also, on this and other similar pictures, the inside front seems about ready to lift off, while the inside rear still looks reasonably well planted.
 

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I noticed the inside front coming close to lifting off too. It looks like a stiffer front bar isn't going to do much besides produce impressive photos.

So now that you know the tires fit on the car, have you tried in the car?

How tall are you, Shinoo? I'm 5'6" and am concerned about being able to see out.
 

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Thats great info and some nice pics. So there is no rubbbing at all with the Hoosiers and if so do you think there is room to add camber with out rubbing?
Can you post a link to the times if they are available. That sure looks like a nice lot!
I guess even though you are not sure if an LSD is needed, that's better than you thinking its is definitely needed lol.
 

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I'm also noticing your courses are GIGANTIC whereas here they're a little smaller. Im wondering on a smaller tighter course with hoosiers if the Elise wouldnt hold its own in SS too.

Granted you're still learning the car etc.
 

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This was a VERY small course for us. A specially done course on a lot we never use, just for testing and tuning for those going to Nationals. Times were in the 30 second (F125) to 40 second range. I was in the cams on 2nd gear once on this course.

In San Diego, it's common to have courses that are over 1.2 miles long, have higher speeds, and take 90 seconds.

Those are indeed cone marks. No damage to the body. I am not worried about that. The marks will come off and most of them are on the starshield.

A tighter course than this would be good for the Elise since the Corvette is a lot bigger. But for me, this was a tight course.

Z06fun.... there was no rubbing with the Hoosiers. We noted a small SMALL point that might have been tire rub on the front lip of the opening, but I expect it came from a big dip in the road days ago on street tires.

I think you can add more negative camber. We might try that. We may also look into drilling a new hole in the front swaybar to stiffen it up. Maybe. There is room for it and I think the endlink geometry will allow it.

At the end of the day... we may need to do some work to get this to the same level as those Z-06 Corvettes. I guess it is a little silly to expect one could take a factory car, even an Elise with LSS, and expect to compete with cars that have had a lot of tuning like the national prepped Corvettes have had. Or maybe we just need to learn the car better. Or both.

THe fastest Z-06 Vettes were in the 33 seconds. I got down to 34.6 seconds. The fastest prepared cars were at 32 seconds.

There are still some questions to be answered. The great news is we accomplished the goals we set out. We learned a LOT about the car.

The Hoosiers fit fine... and these are the 04s were are very wide. The front 205s are almost a 225 really and they fit.

As Robert noted, the locking bolt for the rims sucks. I hated it. I don't think the small benefit of security (stopping someone from stealing my rims... honestly...does this happen in your neighborhood?)... is worth the hassle. The supplied tool to remove them sucks and bends and we had to hammer it a lot to make it round again. Maybe okay for those that change their tires once a year... but we can change them 4 times in one weekend. I am going to order 4 more non-locking lug bolts and replace the locking ones.

Jacking up and changing tires was fine by the way. No problems.

We also tried the A048s out on course as a comparison. We experienced a very significant drop in grip levels which I was having a hard time compensating for. We were about 2 seconds back from our Hoosier times. We tried dropping the pressures to mid 20s in the A048s and they felt better, but actual times were slower.

As a data point, we ran the Hoosiers at around 46psi.

The car felt neutral. I am noticing an interesting trait that the car does when you get a little messed up and correct it... the car really can violently react. Also.. sliding sideways on concrete with Hoosiers is interesting... I was concerned I was breaking something as the car did this sideways hop-skid thing. Funny.. I landed with my rear tire ON a cone. I pushed the throttle and this cone came flying out the back...launched.

I did not feel I needed a harness. The CG-Lock and the seats kept me planted so I felt good while driving.

We did not get any significant inside rear wheel spin on corner exit. However, this concrete was not that grippy and I expect this was not that good of a test for this. We shall see (I hope) in Topeka how the car does. That is the ultimate test.

I was able to get wheel spin though from just pushing down the throttle, from shifting, and from getting on the cams. It was kinda fun. :)
 

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Randy Chase said:
We also tried the A048s out on course as a comparison. We experienced a very significant drop in grip levels which I was having a hard time compensating for. We were about 2 seconds back from our Hoosier times.
That sounds like a surprisingly big difference, especially on such a short course. I guess the A048's might really be optimized for track duty, and not heat up enough during an auto-x run. What were the temperatures at the event?

I was planning to run the A048's for the first season, but if they give up that much, I might have to consider some Kumhos at least.

Thanks for the report and data! It's certainly good news on tire fitment.
 

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Randy,

Great comments & data!!! Did have a question...

"we ran the Hoosiers at around 46psi."

Did you try different pressures? Just seems kinda high from my Lotus experience. I always used to run the lowest PSI I could (still keep off the sidewalls). Examples (on Hoosiers) - Europa F 20-25, R 25-30; Seven F 12-14, R 12-14; Elan F 24-28, R 24-28.

Granted the Europa is about 300 lbs lighter & it's been a few years since I last did any serious autocrossing, but I'm just surprised at 46 psi.

Kiyoshi
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The new A3S04's apparently need alot more pressure than the old Hoosiers.

We actually started out a bit lower and worked up to the mid 40's.

Temps were pretty high. 100 F ambient, not sure what the actual surface temps were.

Randy's fast run was done after spraying the Hoosiers down with water to cool them off.
 

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Robert Puertas said:
The new A3S04's apparently need alot more pressure than the old Hoosiers.

We actually started out a bit lower and worked up to the mid 40's.

Temps were pretty high. 100 F ambient, not sure what the actual surface temps were.

Randy's fast run was done after spraying the Hoosiers down with water to cool them off.
Thanks Robert. Good stuff.

Are the sidewalls of A3S04s softer than the older Hoosiers? I know on my Seven I could have 3 PSI in them and it didn't look like they needed air!

And... one more question, were the Hoosiers rolling over at the lower PSI? On the rear or fronts or both? Could the rollover be more a function of tire to wheel width ratio?

This is where the fun begins :clap:

Wonderful comment about cooling the tires off!

Kiyoshi
 

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John Stimson said:
How tall are you, Shinoo? I'm 5'6" and am concerned about being able to see out.
Shinoo did not eat his subji when growing up. ;) Seriously though, he can see just fine and must be around the same height.

Cool pics. Somebody let me know next time, would love to come and watch.
 

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Vantage said:

Cool pics. Somebody let me know next time, would love to come and watch.
Qualcomm, Sunday Sept 5th.
 

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I've been waiting to hear about the wheels and tires, I know you posted it before, but could you tell me the wheel sizes you bought and the tires? Are the fronts the 205-45ZR-16s and the rear the P225/45ZR-17s both in A3S04 compound?
 
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