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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well after feeling there was no car that could lure for under 40K from the Elise I sit here lusting after another. It is this car




It basically is a sub 1900lbs car with performance numbers that will rival or beat the Lotus Elise. For 45K I could basically get a 350-400rwhp version (turnkey) that would be neck snapping, and provide true supercar performance. It is now available and approved for the US. One of the things I worry about the Elise is this long unknown waiting period, suprise dealer markups and insurance. In addition the Bonded materials used for the tub although strong, exotic and sets the Elise from others is also it's achillies heel. I don't want to even think how much and how long it would be to replace it if it where to get damaged. The K1 is easily repaired in comparison. So here is the list please add to them, rip them up, or just comment on why I should or shouldn't be having these doubts about getting the Elise over the K1 Attack.

ELISE
Good
1. Proven Lotus Suspension and Tuning
2. Production Car
3. 3 Year Warranty
4. Resale Value
5. Name Recognition
6. Great looks
7. Price

Bad
1. Repair Cost and downtime
2. Insurance
3. Slow production
4. Tight Interior (shoulder to shoulder)
5. Acceleration (hardly super-car)
6. Possible dealer markups
7. In car by ??? even though I'm sub 10 in line

K1 ATTACK
Good
1. Extreme Performance
2. True Exotic Looks
3. Easy to repair (honda drive-chain)
4. Price
5. Extremely Rare (in the single digits)
6. Very Low insurance (kit car)
7. Better Interior
8. In car by August

BAD:
1. Not a production car
2. Resale ???
3. Unkown name
4. 1 year warranty
5. Unproven track abilities (although promising)
6. Too much attention

Let er rip! Thanks!
INFO ABOUT THE CAR AND PICS!
 

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Let me preface by saying I don't know a lot about the Attack or the company that makes it. Many of the comments I make are thus rather general in nature.

First, there are a lot of small companies that make nice looking prototypes and small cars. But it is not easy for a tiny company to match the engineering of a company like Lotus. Even though Lotus itself is small. because it consults and contracts out engineering for many other automotive companies, it has engineering capabilties and resources far in excess of other companies that sell similar numbers of cars.

This can manifest itself in so many different ways. From the basics of handling and ride (did the developers of the Attack put in the thousands or hours of track time with talented, experienced test drivers to perfect its handling? And how about more mundane daily test driving chores?) Fit and finish - it we criticize Lotus, would the Attack be better? Serviceablily? Manuals and service procedures documented? Adequate cooling for a 400 BHP engine? Even things like the feel of the pedals, a windshield at an angle that doesn't reflect in the eyes, etc. Things like size of the panel gaps, are they narrow enough to look good? Yet not so small that, given the materials chosen, that panel expansion in hot weather causes them to bind and foul each other.

Of course, I don't know that the Attack falls short in any of those ways. But unless Attack is really backed by a much larger automotive firm or has a large engineering outfit under its aegis, it would have to be a masterpiece by a few genuises. Which it could well be, but I would want to see the English reviews first. My German is really weak, and Czech non-existent. :(

Even Lotus needs the positive reviews to get everyone excited. I'm pretty sure, without all the positive reports on the Elise, we would not be so enthusiastic about the car. We might rely on the heritage and reputation of Lotus to gamble that this would be a good car, but I don't all of us would be as sold as we are without the good press. I would view the Attack in the same way. minus the heritage and reputation.

Specifically with the Attack:

I believe the Lotus bonded structure gives greater strength for the same or less weght. The Attack uses a tube space frame, which will not be as strong and stiff. That's why Lotus chose that type of structure.

The Attack suspension appears to largely come from a Honda Accord. Which is not bad, but will these outperform the designed-on-purpose parts (most of them anyway) of the Elise?

Stability at high speed? Is the Attack wind tunnel tested? I don't know of course. The Elise has the large hood vents to aid cooling and vent excess under-car pressure at high speed. It doesn't look like the Attack has this (though it does have a really low air dam that might compensate, and they appear to have some form of under car air management according to their website.

Their soft top seems kind of cheesy.

On the other hand, with careful attention, the Attack could have build quality as good or better than Lotus. It's hard to see so-so build quality from pictures. As we know from used car ads, almost any car tends to look pretty good from a picture.

Basically, I'd choose the Elise now because of the reputation, reviews, and the proven capability of their design and development engineers. But if the Attack gets great press from road testers (not car show correspondents) then, why not?




DLY
 

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It sounds like the K1 Attack is the right car for you. If you give it a try please let us know how you like it. It would be interesting to try it in an autocross and a track day to see how it performs relative to other cars.
 

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It's kit car, don't really think it'd be comparable to the elise in terms of technology and design..

BTW>I've heard of no issues with the bonded chassis, which certainly would have appeared by now, as the elise has been in production since 96-97 with many of the early cars having over 100K on the odometer



Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes it uses Honda Accord parts, but in the same vein as the Elise uses Toyota Celica parts. It only uses the engine and tranny/rear etc just like the Elise. The suspension is not Honda Accord but a Audi TT Tuned suspension that was tweeked for the K1 specifically by Audi engneers. On a track day in Germany with he (generation 1) 130hp version it beat everything on an auto -x except a Porsche GT2. This was the rough version and only 130hp, I truly wonder what the 2nd generation at 400rwhp and better suspension could do on a road course. I guess it comes down to how much I want to gamble. I will have a chance to see it in person in about a month. This will be interesting to compare pics to real life. It sure is pretty though. Carbon fiber seats and interior I cant even imagine what aftermarket parts you could even add as it looks to have so many tuner aftermarket type things already installed.
 

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It is a fantastic looking car. However, there seems to be several discrepancies in the description of exactly what it is. While they talk about Audi racing suspension, and show a picture of a rocker arm coil-over suspension, when you look at the parts list required from the donor Accord, it includes upper & lower control arms, torsion bar, hubs rotors, brakes, etc.

The K1 Styling (now K1 Engineering) web site shows a somewhat different setup using Ford Duratec V6 & I4 drive trains. They also show a turnkey price of 50,620 Euros, without all the optional components. That's Noble and Esthi territory.

I also wonder if the weight specification is with engine/transmission, or just the car as they build it.
 

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I find it amazing that every car around has beat every other car around at some unnamed "German" trackday/road course. Oh sorry you said auto-X,,,, they autocross in Germany? As much as travel there and as many employees as I have there who are into motor sports, this is the first I have heard of auto-x in Germany. Well, you learn stuff every day!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
James A said:
I find it amazing that every car around has beat every other car around at some unnamed "German" trackday/road course. Oh sorry you said auto-X,,,, they autocross in Germany? As much as travel there and as many employees as I have there who are into motor sports, this is the first I have heard of auto-x in Germany. Well, you learn stuff every day!
Well after seeing how upset you seem to be with the prospect of a German auto-x I went back to search for the attack track video of the race. The Germany reference was not to be found thus I'm not sure where I may have gotten it. I guess that's what happens when reading to many post late at night from various car sites. So you may rest in knowing that you havent been missing any auto-x in Germany. I probably shouldnt even have mentioned the race since the new attack and or the one that can be built for 45K is the difference of a 130hp car to a 400rwhp. There would really be no comparison. A 1900lbs car with 400hp, Audi Racing Team designed suspension sounds rather interesting though.

Here is a Link to the K1 Attack forums that has alot of discussion and video's for those who want to read about it themselves.
K1 Attack Forums
 

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Wow. Thanks. I'm interested! But like to get more info first. I wonder if they have a model that you can actually test drive if you fly down there. Hmmm. Who's going to service the thing?

Also, it's lower than the Elise but about 4 inches! Here are the dimensions:


Length: 159.0"
Width: 77.9"
Height: 41.5"
Wheel Base: 96.0"
Weight: 1870 lbs
 

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I think you will be happy with this car judging by your criteria. Go for it. :)
 

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What is a "kit car?" :confused: Does it mean you have to build it yourself?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Allan Gibbs said:
What is a "kit car?" :confused: Does it mean you have to build it yourself?
You could buy the kit for $16,500 + Donor car and build it yourself. Or buy it turnkey for 35,000 out the door.
 

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1FASTMX5 said:
You could buy the kit for $16,500 + Donor car and build it yourself. Or buy it turnkey for 35,000 out the door.
Thank you. It would be interesting to have both an Attack and an Elise. Hmmm. :eek:
 

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Resale could be problematic on some kit cars. Hard to say. Caterhams certainly don't suffer from that, but it's actually a manufactured car sans engine for the US.

Also titling these type cars can be a nightmare, I'd be curious,, does the attack come with an MSO or do you title it with the donor car VIN.

Chris
 

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I was wondering about longevity and resale also. How long will the Accord engine last? How much could you resell it for in 5 years?

As for the MSO, I checked their site and they do provide a MSO and a VIN number. Registration is on a state-by-state basis.

The way I understanding it, you can buy and assemble the kit for yourself for $16K, or you can have their U.S. distributor provide a turnkey version for $35K.

photos:
http://www.euroworksltd.com/TheAttack/Kits/Attack/ImageGallery.htm


Added:

Another factor with the Attack is safety. I was looking at the frame diagrams and there really isn't any sort of protection against a side impact (except the doors). It's also 4 inches lower than the Elise!:





With the Elise, I believe the frame itself will offer added protection and is complemented with airbags.

On a lesser note, the Attack won't have air conditioning, which is a bit more of an issue here in Arizona.

I spoke to Mid-Altantic. They have an Attack in thier facility, but it's already been sold. I'm about to send an e-mail to Mid-Altantic with some questions. I'll post the responses.
 

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Little Bastard said:
Very interesting and surprisingly good looking on screen. If it is really what you want go get it!

400 whp !!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Neil
Little Bastard: My friend is called The Fat Bastard and wants to know if you're a rich relative of his in California? If so, he would like to come visit you when he gets out of prison next month. P.S.- He was set up by the gov't to take a fall concerning a bogus embezzlement charge and wants you to know he was a Boy Scout when he was young.
 
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