[Johnnymac]

Production hasn't moved to China, so there's no big savings on labor costs. The Emira and Evora both have aluminum bonded chassis, same powertrain. Are you suggesting that the Evora included 32% of profit that the new owners are happy to return to buyers in favor of gaining market share? Because... China?

There is no one answer as to why it could be cheaper, it is a combination of a bunch things but the big ones would be, the Evora was hand built and the Emira will not be built the same way, development cost is lower because they are not "reinventing the wheel" by using the same tech and powertrain, they are getting valuable advice from Geely to cut costs and using their contacts to gain suppliers at better prices (hence the AMG engine and DCT).

The Evora was hand built, mostly built from scratch, and the costs were spread over a much smaller number of vehicles.

 

[NoFear99]

Lotus had the capacity to produce 1800 cars per year with the Evora - Exige - Elise and the profit margin at that volume needed to be higher. Now with their new facility they will be able to produce 4800 units per year. They will also get some parts at discounted price via the Geely network. Who better placed then a chinese group to know that you need volume to stay in bussiness and to be able to reach that higher sale volume you need to sell at a cheaper price point. If you sell an Evora 2.0 at the same price point as before how do you think you can get different sales numbers result if you do the same...

We are not the one here who has invented that the Emira was going to sell at a starting price of 60K pounds includind VAT tax. Lotus did it so why somes people here doesnt seem to understand this fact ?

Probably some Evora owners that dont want to see that happen...

 

[kratedisease]

So in the UK WITH the VAT tax at 60K GBP, that translates to around 72K USD. ( I am using 15% VAT tax rate )

I hope that the USA brochure that stated around $80K US was indicating the "First Editions" that will be more fully equipped.

How great if the car starts at $72k-$73k USD. fingers crossed.

This VAT tax included price of 60k GBP in the UK does not match up with the paper brochure price of $80k USD.

And this is why there are so many questions as to what the real cemented pricing will be.

 

[Kanuck]

Production hasn't moved to China, so there's no big savings on labor costs. The Emira and Evora both have aluminum bonded chassis, same powertrain. Are you suggesting that the Evora included 32% of profit that the new owners are happy to return to buyers in favor of gaining market share? Because... China?

Let me speculate a bit based on my experience. Volume discounts on parts between 2k units a year to 20k or more a year (which Geely far exceeds) can easily exceed 20%. Automation compared to hand building everything (which Lotus was doing) saves a huge amount. Lotus volumes were so low that it wouldn't be surprising if fixed costs (building, r&d, admin, etc) were 30% per unit - and if volume triples (from 1600 to 4800) then per unit fixed costs becomes 1/3 and drops to 10% - a 20% per unit cost savings just from that! When you add those together, they can easily save per unit costs of 32% you're talking about without moving production anywhere.

 

[dgrace]

I'm also curious where Lotus specified that 60k included VAT. I've seen that batted around a lot on this forum but never have seen a source cited.

 

[kratedisease]

I'm also curious where Lotus specified that 60k included VAT. I've seen that batted around a lot on this forum but never have seen a source cited.

I can't remember but I believe it was from LOTUS directly at the launch in the UK.

 

[Johnnymac]

So in the UK WITH the VAT tax at 60K GBP, that translates to around 72K USD. ( I am using 15% VAT tax rate )

I hope that the USA brochure that stated around $80K US was indicating the "First Editions" that will be more fully equipped.

How great if the car starts at $72k-$73k USD. fingers crossed.

This VAT tax included price of 60k GBP in the UK does not match up with the paper brochure price of $80k USD.

And this is why there are so many questions as to what the real cemented pricing will be.

I think VAT is actually 20%, so the Emira is 50,000 pounds plus 10,000 pounds of VAT. Also I think Lotus said starting under 60k so could be a bit lower than that too.

 

[Johnnymac]

I can't remember but I believe it was from LOTUS directly at the launch in the UK.

It was, they stated this at UK launch. Also said starting under 60k, so could be a bit under that.

 

[kratedisease]

I was more conservative using 15%..... just in case.

BUT, until the paper brochure showed up online after the USA Goodwood event, I believe all of us were expecting the stripper to start at $72-$73K

The paper brochure threw a wrench into this

 

[kratedisease]

I just hope the $80K start for all launch editions are for heavily/fully optioned cars, then I would be OK spending $80K USD.

 

[NoFear99]

I'm also curious where Lotus specified that 60k included VAT. I've seen that batted around a lot on this forum but never have seen a source cited.

Less than 60K pounds including VAT tax of 20% was showed at Goodwood festival of speed onto the sheet display beside the blue car.

The 80Kusd price showed into the now removed online pdf brochure must be the price for the V6 first edition because this is what they will sell at first. 80-85K + black pack + colored brake calipers + forged lighter wheels + sport pack with stiffer suspension in combo with michelin sport cup2 tires + Alcantara + colored stitching and leather = 92K-95K usd.

60K pounds minus 20% VAT = 50K pounds = high 60K US but you need to add over sea transport fees so that’s why I expect 70-72K US for the cheaper Emira starting price a non first edition with less options included and maybe with the I4 engine.

 

[kratedisease]

Less than 60K pounds including VAT tax of 20% was showed at Goodwood festival of speed onto the sheet display beside the blue car.

oh yah, good memory, thank you !!

 

[dgrace]

Let me speculate a bit based on my experience. Volume discounts on parts between 2k units a year to 20k or more a year (which Geely far exceeds) can easily exceed 20%. Automation compared to hand building everything (which Lotus was doing) saves a huge amount. Lotus volumes were so low that it wouldn't be surprising if fixed costs (building, r&d, admin, etc) were 30% per unit - and if volume triples (from 1600 to 4800) then per unit fixed costs becomes 1/3 and drops to 10% - a 20% per unit cost savings just from that! When you add those together, they can easily save per unit costs of 32% you're talking about without moving production anywhere.

Thanks for actually trying to answer the question! Volume discounts on parts would definitely apply to shared parts across Geely models, but things like body panels won't see that savings. How many parts are shared? Neither will there be a significant savings on the powertrain unless Toyota just decides to sell them cheaper because... uh, China? Labor automation definitely helps after the initial investment. Fixed costs should help as number of units goes up.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Emira's styling and can't wait to get mine, but I just don't see how the math works that a car with the same basic structure and powertrain as the Evora would somehow come out 1/3 cheaper, unless the Evora's price was padded with tons of profit margin, which it doesn't seem like it was.

 

[kratedisease]

How can this EMIRA really cost that much more to produce and sell than the new Nissan Z ?

so in reality $70K USD is where it should be priced....

 

[Exira]

Production hasn't moved to China, so there's no big savings on labor costs. The Emira and Evora both have aluminum bonded chassis, same powertrain. Are you suggesting that the Evora included 32% of profit that the new owners are happy to return to buyers in favor of gaining market share? Because... China?

It doesn't have to move to China to undercut the competitor's price, it's all about the owner/leadership new directions. As an example, Iphone is made in China, but it is still much more expensive than other Chinese smart phone companies. A reason why Apple is a 2.5 trillion dollar company.

We wouldn't know until the actual car arrives and pricing is released. But for fun, below are my guess:
1) No longer hand built and new factory automate everything so staff is cut by 3/4
2) Mass production like the normal sport cars (Corvettes, Mustangs, etc.)
3) Reduce profit margin just to gain market share from the competitor
4) Cheaper materials but make it look nice on the surface

 

[4380r]

It doesn't have to move to China to undercut the competitor's price, it's all about the owner/leadership new directions. As an example, Iphone is made in China, but it is still much more expensive than other Chinese smart phone companies. A reason why Apple is a 2.5 trillion dollar company.

We wouldn't know until the actual car arrives and pricing is released. But for fun, below are my guess:
1) No longer hand built and new factory automate everything so staff is cut by 3/4
2) Mass production like the normal sport cars (Corvettes, Mustangs, etc.)
3) Reduce profit margin just to gain market share from the competitor
4) Cheaper materials but make it look nice on the surface

With coup in Guinea likely to drive up price of aluminum, and China significantly cutting production for same, and the ongoing chip shortage, scratch off #4 above.

 

[Eagle7]

I just hope the $80K start for all launch editions are for heavily/fully optioned cars, then I would be OK spending $80K USD.

That's what I'm guessing; the "around $80k usd" is for the launch spec First Editions. It looks like they will have quite a bit included, and we'll be able to choose paint color, black packs yes/no, caliper color, wheels, Drivers Pack, manual or auto trans, and hopefully leather or Alcantara interior. I want the tan leather. I think the KEF sound system is going to be included, as well as the 12-way adjustable seats and heated seats. I still haven't been able to guess what the Design Pack is, but that may be included too. I hope they release info soon so we can argue and debate over whether or not the world is coming to an end, or who has a brain or no brain when it comes to what colors and options they decide to add. Should be fun!

 

[kratedisease]

So, related to the difference in what was printed as pricing on the UK reveal and compared to the price on the US paper brochure, the only logical conclusion is that the US launch versions will be fully loaded and will all start at $80K.

If so, thats a fine strategy. Most launch cars that are released or new platforms that are relesed, regardless of manufacturer, tend to build their initial cars fully equipped for higher margins and also because first adaptors want them fully loaded.

Lets all keep our fingers crossed that this is the case as to why there is difference in pricing from the initial reveal and the USA brochure printed pricing.

 

[Noregrts]

Didn't someone say that Gator said the launch editions would be six figures? I swore someone posted that...I can't be 100% sure. Between rumors, speculation, and the limited information we actually have, it's hard to keep things straight.

 

[VL3X]

Didn't someone say that Gator said the launch editions would be six figures? I swore someone posted that...I can't be 100% sure. Between rumors, speculation, and the limited information we actually have, it's hard to keep things straight.

Yes, someone did claim Gator said 6 figures for First Edition. However, I spoke to a couple other deposit holders through Gator who claim that isn't true. Fact is, no dealers know official pricing yet. We'll (forum members/enthusiasts) probably know as soon as (if not before) the dealers know.

That being said.. if FE's end up being $80-85k, Lotus will sell A LOT of Emiras. If they are $100k+, they will fail.