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Discussion Starter #1
I am currently in the process of picking up a FF380 kit, and was wondering if it is possible to have a tune which will allow constant switching back and forth between different tunes? (Ex. Daily driving, Spirited driving, and Racing)
 

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Switching betwen tunes on the fly

High-end Engine Management Systems (Computers) have that feature,just like Formula 1 cars that allow the driver to adjust the fuel consumption i.e. tune on the fly.

The most popular is Motec. It has a built-in CAN bus, so will interface to the dash no problem.

Yes, it will run you $5k minimum for the parts, alone. It will do many fancy things, like turbo anti-lag, some traction control, assist with clutchless shifting with the right trans, an so forth.

Anton
 

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Discussion Starter #4
$5K :crazyeyes wow, that's quite a lot for a tune. Is there no slightly more simple tune that would just allow you to switch between 2 or 3 tunes? I remember seeing someones setup that allowed a key to switch between pump gas and race gas; why not run something similar?

I've heard the term in cockpit boost controller, maybe this would work?
 

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Yea the simplest way to achieve this is to simply have an in-cabin boost controller which can adjust the boost beyond the base pressure if you decide you want more power. Any good tuner will tune it at all the various loads (boost) levels anyways so having a boost controller would be all that you need.

As for the race gas / pump gas you can do that with the standalone assuming you have a laptop with you to load the tune in... In fact it may offer the ability to switch maps based on a user switch.

With the stock computer and the kold fire cable you should also be able to have a pump gas and race gas tune that is loaded over the cable via a laptop.
 

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re: switchable tune

When you ask for a tune it means a set of fuel and ignition angle maps for the engine, each different and optimized for different conditions....

The manufacturer of your stock computer never foresaw such eventuality and to save a few $$, uses a device called an EEPROM to store such parameters. So to get a new tune, you have to re-program the EEPROM. It is a slow process that takes about 15secs. This EEPROM is just big enough to store one map, again save another $0.25.

There is probably a way to solder more than one EEPROM into the ECU and have a switch to flip them but not while the car and the ECU is running. This is still much too complicated.

There maybe a clever way to fool teh ECU to switch ignition maps only for example with a key for high octane gasoline. This will give a performance boost, but will not be perfectly optimized for race gas, as it would run rich, since mos trace gas is heavier and requires a leaner AFR. But not a bad compromise.. Again not easy to do with stock ECU, since one of the existing ignition maps would have to be sacrificed.

A cockpit boost controller is a manual boost controller. They come in electronic and mechanical (poppet valve ) form. In this case, the ECU is programmed for high boost, but you only let it happen when you turn the knob. I had really unhappy experience with these devices, they never quite work right. The modern ECU has such a nice boost control... but it is pre-set.... I guess, one could plum a manual override into the bleed line to cause a kind of artificial boost creep. The downside is that it will be laggy and if it just goes a little wrong, it will nicely blow up your motor. These devices are relatively inexpensive from $75 to $350 (although I have seen some Japanese stuff for up to $1k). You get what you pay for. I would get an electronic device for $350. But someone has to reprogram your ECU for high boost and if you run race gas with it, you should always remember not to run high boost on street gas.

Anton


$5K :crazyeyes wow, that's quite a lot for a tune. Is there no slightly more simple tune that would just allow you to switch between 2 or 3 tunes? I remember seeing someones setup that allowed a key to switch between pump gas and race gas; why not run something similar?

I've heard the term in cockpit boost controller, maybe this would work?
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Wow sounds pretty complicated. So adjustable boost controllers don't work all that well?
Also, any suggestions for the best way to go about tuning for starting out on stock internals and low boost for the FF380 kit. (I'll be gradually moving up after I get comfortable with things) I took a look at Koldfire's website and Boe wants 1390$ just to tune the stock ECU to a fixed tune :crazyeyes
 

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Right now your options are limited...

Boe - $1.4k and not tunable by you. You'll have to datalog and send to BOE where they'll mod your tune and send it back to you (unless you deliver your car to their shop)

EFI - $3k to buy, then you install and tune. Infinitely tunable at any time by you. This would allow you to multiple map and with some practice you can build your own. Probably the best option for you over time!
Kris at DRS has some shelf tunes that would probably get you started pretty quickly.

Wow sounds pretty complicated. So adjustable boost controllers don't work all that well?
Also, any suggestions for the best way to go about tuning for starting out on stock internals and low boost for the FF380 kit. (I'll be gradually moving up after I get comfortable with things) I took a look at Koldfire's website and Boe wants 1390$ just to tune the stock ECU :crazyeyes
 

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Wow sounds pretty complicated. So adjustable boost controllers don't work all that well?
Also, any suggestions for the best way to go about tuning for starting out on stock internals and low boost for the FF380 kit. (I'll be gradually moving up after I get comfortable with things) I took a look at Koldfire's website and Boe wants 1390$ just to tune the stock ECU :crazyeyes
Adjustable boost controllers work fine. Used all the time.
And FWIW I think a well tuned stock ECU with a boost controller is probably the best bet for most people.

Tuning for the lotus 2zz isn't cheap, but at the same time it will make or break the setup I strongly urge you not to cheap out on it.

Right now your options are limited...

Boe - $1.4k and not tunable by you. You'll have to datalog and send to BOE where they'll mod your tune and send it back to you (unless you deliver your car to their shop)

EFI - $3k to buy, then you install and tune. Infinitely tunable at any time by you. This would allow you to multiple map and with some practice you can build your own. Probably the best option for you over time!
Kris at DRS has some shelf tunes that would probably get you started pretty quickly.
There are other factors to consider as well besides just price and tunability.

Most importantly is emissions and obdii compliance.
You also have to consider your confidence in tuning it yourself.
 

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Right now your options are limited...

Boe - $1.4k and not tunable by you. You'll have to datalog and send to BOE where they'll mod your tune and send it back to you (unless you deliver your car to their shop)

EFI - $3k to buy, then you install and tune. Infinitely tunable at any time by you. This would allow you to multiple map and with some practice you can build your own. Probably the best option for you over time!
Kris at DRS has some shelf tunes that would probably get you started pretty quickly.
You can also fly Jermaine out from VF to do a custom reflash of the factory ECU. He has experience working on cars with the FF kit.
 

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I have a switchable EFI ECU From DRS and a 275FF kit.

Kris at DRS has some shelf tunes that would get you started.

I have switch in the car that I can test two different tunes.

Are you going to run the kit as FF380 or as a FF275 tune ?

if you are going to run kit as FF380 you will need engine internal upgrades and a clutch upgrade

I did the complete install of the EFI ECU From DRS myself and Kris helped me get the tune right.

Are putting this on a stock lotus ?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm starting it out on a stock motor with a relatively conservative tune, especially since its my daily driver. So I would be starting with a pretty conservative tune then eventually upgrading motor, cluch, ect. Especially since I would not be able to do anything tuning wise myself yet, I should get a basic tune on the stock ecu, and go with a different solution after I move up.
So now to figure out tuning the stock ecu for the meantime
(on a side note, is it practical to tap into the stock oil pan to start out with as well?)
 

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Right now your options are limited...

Boe - $1.4k and not tunable by you. You'll have to datalog and send to BOE where they'll mod your tune and send it back to you (unless you deliver your car to their shop)

EFI - $3k to buy, then you install and tune. Infinitely tunable at any time by you. This would allow you to multiple map and with some practice you can build your own. Probably the best option for you over time!
Kris at DRS has some shelf tunes that would probably get you started pretty quickly.
For custom stuff the EFI is hard to beat. We worked very closely with DRS for several years perfecting that system, which is now essentially plug and play. For switchable tunes, that is also the ticket.

For more typical builds that are likely to remain fairly static, flashing the ECU is a good option. Also a good option in emissions states.

Our custom flash tunes are quite inexpensive when compared to flying me out, buying me steak dinners, putting me up in the Ritz, paying for dyno time, etc:D... It takes a little while, but it's largely an email excercise with *some* dyno time. You just need to be able to furnish quality and complete OBD and WB data and we can typically get the car very close on the street with then 1 or 2 trips to the dyno to make any final tweaks. This is the case with supercharged cars anyway. Turbos can be trickier given the wide range of setups... In that case, I just assume have the car on my dyno to build a flash tune...


Hope that helps,

Phil
 

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You can buy pan from BOE that has a port for the turbo return hose. If you want I have a stock pan with port for a turbo I would sell cheap.

The problem with using the Stock ECU is that you have take car to a tuner and they put car on dyno and tune it. As far as I know the only shop that will do that is BOE.
You need someone that has done a FF275 tune before do the tune.

I do not know anyone you can send a stock ECU and flash a 275FF tune that will work. If the say they can do that I would be very suspect if it is true

If this is your daily driver and you are not very good with mechanical work I recommend you take this to someone and have work done.

When I did my ECU install myself and it took a week or two of working with DRS to get the tune correct. I have 4 cars so it was not a issue. some of the problems was my average skills.


wedsite for DRS

NEW DRS EFI X2 PnP | Race Solutions
 

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We will be releasing our EMS kit soon that allows the user to switch between 2 different tunes easily. We will even offer a switch that mounts in a factory location to do so. This is handy when you are using different fuels for track and street use.

We set up the tune on Tony's Radium turbocharged Elise for this.
Radium Engineering - Blog - Radium Lotus Turbocharger Kit Diary

The keyed switch in the gauge mount is the switch to flip when he puts race fuel in it.

When we publish our press release on our EMS it will contain all of the details of the system and all questions will be answered then.
Keep in touch!
 

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GO MOROSO OR BOE FOR YOUR OIL PAN!!!
SERIOUSLY!!

Sorry was I yelling???

Some things you dont screw around with - oil and fuel.
Do yourself a favor and spend the $500 or so on th oil pan
and seriously consider the fuel surge tank or baffled gas tank
solution. Last thing you need is an engine rebuild!!



I'm starting it out on a stock motor with a relatively conservative tune, especially since its my daily driver. So I would be starting with a pretty conservative tune then eventually upgrading motor, cluch, ect. Especially since I would not be able to do anything tuning wise myself yet, I should get a basic tune on the stock ecu, and go with a different solution after I move up.
So now to figure out tuning the stock ecu for the meantime
(on a side note, is it practical to tap into the stock oil pan to start out with as well?)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Wow so are there any options that don't involve flying someone out or finding someone in my area that is trustworthy? I heard you could send your ecu out for a tune, pop it in and go. guess I was a little misinformed :(
Since the tuning is something that's very critical, I know I need to get it right, but since I would be replacing it later with something like an EFI, I would think a tune on the stock ecu with low boost would be sufficient in the meantime?
 

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I suppose you could try something like that, but there's a very valuable lesson that was passed on to me, that I once didn't listen to, that I now swear by, that I'll pass on to you;)

There's no such thing as getting a good deal when it comes to making horsepower.

In otherwords, you can try to "save" money now and most likely learn that saving money ended up costing you more...

If you cannot do it the right way now, then put it off until later.

Just my 2 cents...

Phil
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well if I didn't go by that, then I would have gone with the Hass turbo kit at half the price in the first place :D
But question still remains:
Are there any options that don't involve flying someone out or finding someone in my area that is trustworthy? (assuming I don't trust myself yet to do any major tuning)
From the sounds of it, that's the Only complete way to go about it...
I shouldn't have a problem doing the physical install, but I wouldn't exactly trust tuning it myself
 

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IMO there is no satisfactory way to tune a car remotely. I won't touch a mail order except as a startup base map to start from. If I cannot adjust each map and cell while on a dyno or preferably after a data acquired track session, I won't tune at all.

One big problem with remote dyno sessions is slow turnaround between pulls and I'll be damned if I don't run into some mechanical SNAFU that ruins the whole session if you are not really ready for a lot of issues.
 
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