The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
425 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Like the title says. How do I choose a radiator as I can't find any real performance data out there, just specs.

I have a 2006 Exige with the OEM radiator still in it. Based upon old posts I'm worried about it leaking / developing issues. To add to this my car over heated two consecutive track days (a month a part) last year in July and August. By overheat I mean 230 water temp and the dash blinking very angry at me. I missed runs, which is unacceptable, to be on the safe side (I drive the car to/from the track).

My original plan for this winter was upgrade the REV300 to the 400; however, I'm thinking my cooling should come first since I'm just going to tax it even more. Once driving season starts my free time to work on the car between events is non-existent, so doing it right during the winter is imperative. I should mention I have a hard time cooling down between AutoX runs as well in grid.

I've assembled the following list of single pass radiator possibilities (let me know if I missed any). Based upon this forum it appears single pass is the way to go for a more track than street car.

ProAlloy______45mm Aluminum Radiator
BOE_________CR Front HEX (Dual pass)..... Requires A/C removal?
BWR_________27mm Denso F1..................single pass? no specs found.
??___________42mm High Pressure Aluminum Radiator (sold by SeriouslyLotus, BWR, etc..) I'm guessing this is a ProAlloy model.
Wizard Cooling 38mm Aluminum Radiator 1.5" Core 99053-500
Wizard Cooling 57mm Aluminum Radiator 2.25" Core 99051-100

So here's the question, price aside, how does one choose a radiator without not performance data available?
BOE and BWR want double the price of every other option available. Are they twice as good? I'll pay it in a heartbeat if so, but I can't tell.

BTW: I do not want to run a rear IC with the REV400 if at all possible, so a radiator to handle everything is ideal while retaining A/C.
 

·
Acme Super Moderator The Enforcer
Joined
·
6,617 Posts
Like the title says. How do I choose a radiator as I can't find any real performance data out there, just specs.

I have a 2006 Exige with the OEM radiator still in it. Based upon old posts I'm worried about it leaking / developing issues. To add to this my car over heated two consecutive track days (a month a part) last year in July and August. By overheat I mean 230 water temp and the dash blinking very angry at me. I missed runs, which is unacceptable, to be on the safe side (I drive the car to/from the track).

My original plan for this winter was upgrade the REV300 to the 400; however, I'm thinking my cooling should come first since I'm just going to tax it even more. Once driving season starts my free time to work on the car between events is non-existent, so doing it right during the winter is imperative. I should mention I have a hard time cooling down between AutoX runs as well in grid.

I've assembled the following list of single pass radiator possibilities (let me know if I missed any). Based upon this forum it appears single pass is the way to go for a more track than street car.

ProAlloy______45mm Aluminum Radiator
BOE_________CR Front HEX (Dual pass)..... Requires A/C removal?
BWR_________27mm Denso F1..................single pass? no specs found.
??___________42mm High Pressure Aluminum Radiator (sold by SeriouslyLotus, BWR, etc..) I'm guessing this is a ProAlloy model.
Wizard Cooling 38mm Aluminum Radiator 1.5" Core 99053-500
Wizard Cooling 57mm Aluminum Radiator 2.25" Core 99051-100

So here's the question, price aside, how does one choose a radiator without not performance data available?
BOE and BWR want double the price of every other option available. Are they twice as good? I'll pay it in a heartbeat if so, but I can't tell.

BTW: I do not want to run a rear IC with the REV400 if at all possible, so a radiator to handle everything is ideal while retaining A/C.
The BOE CR Front HEX is not a radiator, it's a front mount intercooler for high horsepower REV400 builds. It requires the removal of the AC, at least that what Phil told me. The BWR Denso F1 is the top notch lightweight radiator, and if cost is not an issue would be my choice.

Since you're looking to do the REV400 and want to choose the radiator to support it, I'd give Phil at BOE a call. Especially as it relates to the front HEX (if you go that route) etc.

San
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,099 Posts
Lack of specs of radiators is REALLY common, part of our frustration. That's why we did a lot of research before we offered the F1. We also have our regular aluminum radiator, which gives better than OEM performance at a very attractive price. It performs every bit as well and probably better as the custom 60mm rad in my XP car. When I replace that radiator, I will be using the F1. This same core is used by all the NASCAR guys.

1. It is pretty simple: specific heat capacity of water is so much higher than air, it is essential to get as much air in contact with aluminum as possible since very little water is needed to make a big change in air temp.

2. Better to have a thinner, but more dense core since the air heats up so quickly as it moves through the radiator.

3. Single vs. Double: Our core providers tell us that it makes very little, if any, difference and usually comes down to packaging. The advantage of the Single is that as RPMs rise it reduces the pressure on the pump which contributes to cavitation. Electric water pumps minimize this concern, but really only practical on race cars.

For regular folks, including TVS300 and 400 customers that see occassional track use, I recommend our 42mm aluminum rad. Cools better than stock, gets rid of the plastic end tanks, good price. For folks that have overheating issues, run frequently and hard at the track esp at altitude or in hot climate, or just want room to grow I suggest the F1 rad, it really is the business.

One other note, the front mount IC that BOE sells uses the same F1 core, its a nice bit of kit.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
425 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The BOE CR Front HEX is not a radiator

@oldmansan Thanks, I completely missed that. What I get for skimming the install instructions, looked like a Rad replacement procedure.
@fzust Thanks for the info. So including yourself there are only two Rads that list fins/inch specs. Do know (or can you measure) how many fins/inch on the ProAlloy?

Denso F1 21/inch
Wizard 16/inch
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,099 Posts
@oldmansan Thanks, I completely missed that. What I get for skimming the install instructions, looked like a Rad replacement procedure.

@fzust Thanks for the info. So including yourself there are only two Rads that list fins/inch specs. Do know (or can you measure) how many fins/inch on the ProAlloy?

Denso F1 21/inch
Wizard 16/inch
Our all-aluminum radiator is not the Pro-Alloy. It is European made to our specs. I believe it is 18/in. However remember that the number of tubes is important also. The F1 has very narrow tube spacing i.e. more tubes going across means more water surface touching more aluminum surface. The F1 has very tight 0.25" center-on-center spacing vs. 0.4" that is typical. Both rads are lighter than stock. The 42mm is ~1lb lighter and the F1 is 2.5lbs NOT including about 1 lb of water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Just an FYI, the BOE front mount hex (intercooler) can be installed under the crash structure to retain the AC... BOE did this for me and other LT member installed his this way as well I believe. If retaining the AC is important to you (as it was to me).
I have the pro alloy rad and the BOE Rev400 btw. Wish the F1 Rad from BWR was avail when I replaced my rad (because I always want the "best"), but phil did does not seem to think it's necessary in my case (mix of street and frequent track use) I have only done one track day since my build was completed in late fall and had no overheating issues.... Temps were in the 80's IIRC, so we will see if there's issues with overheating with higher ambient temps this upcoming summer.
 

·
Acme Super Moderator The Enforcer
Joined
·
6,617 Posts
Just an FYI, the BOE front mount hex (intercooler) can be installed under the crash structure to retain the AC... BOE did this for me and other LT member installed his this way as well I believe. If retaining the AC is important to you (as it was to me).
Great information on the BOE frount mount hex and retaining the AC, but does this compromise the amount of horsepower that can be attained with the REV400? What kind of numbers did you attain, if you don't mind divulging?

San
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Great information on the BOE frount mount hex and retaining the AC, but does this compromise the amount of horsepower that can be attained with the REV400? What kind of numbers did you attain, if you don't mind divulging?

San
I don't think so.... I ended up with 369 RWHP.. :D:clap:
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
3,099 Posts
Great information on the BOE frount mount hex and retaining the AC, but does this compromise the amount of horsepower that can be attained with the REV400? What kind of numbers did you attain, if you don't mind divulging?

San
San, on a peak HP doubtful, however for heat soaking on the track it might be a little better up in the airstream. The front mount outperforms the side mount in either location. However a Small price to pay for "cool runnings" for both the driver and engine.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
425 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Can someone post pictures how the BOE Front HEX is installed under the crash structure? really curious what this looks like and how the airflow interacts with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Can someone post pictures how the BOE Front HEX is installed under the crash structure? really curious what this looks like and how the airflow interacts with it.
I unfortunately don't have any pics of their install, but there is a thread somewhere here on LT of a guy who installed it there with lots of pics IIRC.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
988 Posts
I opted for the Pro-Alloy setup that EliseParts sells. It gave me a Water to Air IC and a new radiator. I was able to keep the AC condenser. The W2A IC works great for auto-Xing and I do not have problems on the track of either getting hot or losing HP due to IC temps.

I looked at several options because of the IC temps and this was the best solution I could find and was more cost effective than trying to get a new IC and lots of duct work.

Later,
Eldon
 

·
purveyor of lightness
Joined
·
4,067 Posts
I unfortunately don't have any pics of their install, but there is a thread somewhere here on LT of a guy who installed it there with lots of pics IIRC.
Ask and you shall receive. Very slick and clean installation. Vented front under tray not pictured.

Crazy laser jammer not included :)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Thanks David for the pics! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
Interesting info about the core density. Populated all the info I could find for single pass radiators out there (minus some offerings from Hanger111, Elise-Spares & Elise-Shop as they appear to be the same as others). Anyone have any further missing info on the fins/inch or tube spacing? Specifically interested in the Koyo HH series and EP radiators. Seems to be very little discussion of these here on the forums.

Denso F1 Core - 27mm thick - single row - 21 fins/inch - 6.4mm tube spacing (Link to BWR - $795)


ProAlloy Core - 45mm thick - twin row - ??? fins/inch - ???mm tube spacing (Link to BOE - $550)


Wizard Core - 57mm thick - twin row - 16 fins/inch - 9.5mm tube spacing (Link to GRP - $480)
Wizard Core - 37mm thick - twin row - 16 fins/inch - 9.5mm tube spacing (Link to GRP - $460)


BWR Core - 42mm thick - single row - 18 fins/inch - ???mm tube spacing (Link to BWR - $450)


EP Upgraded Core - 45mm thick - twin row - ??? fins/inch - ???mm tube spacing (Link to EP - $410) *Says they use F1 Tech?


Koyo HH Core - 48mm thick - single row - ??? fins/inch - ???mm tube spacing (Link to GRP - $400)


ChampRad Core - 40mm thick - twin row - 14-16 fins/inch - 8mm tube spacing (Link to InoKinetic - $375)


EP Normal Core - 42mm thick - single row - ??? fins/inch - ???mm tube spacing (Link to EP - $260)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
I have e-mailed EP and Koyo to request the tube spacing and fin density info on their products. Also reached out to a friend who recently installed a Koyo to see if he can check in case I don't hear back from them. Will update if I hear anything.

@turbophil do you have the fin density and tube spacing info available for the ProAlloy you sell? Also is this the same radiator they list on their site HERE? Confused as they call it out as a 43mm core but it is listed as 45mm on your and other sites.

@fzust do you have the tube spacing available for the "ALL ALUMINUM HIGH PERFORMANCE RADIATOR" you offer?
 

·
German Reimport
Joined
·
2,953 Posts
What kind of performance information do you get from tube spacing or fin density without knowing any other important facts which influence the performance of a radiator and the entire cooling system (pressure drop, heat transfer rates (which highly depend on design characteristics like turbulator design, end tank design,...), etc)?

The outer geometry of a radiator is not really a good indicator of its performance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
What kind of performance information do you get from tube spacing or fin density without knowing any other important facts which influence the performance of a radiator and the entire cooling system (pressure drop, heat transfer rates (which highly depend on design characteristics like turbulator design, end tank design,...), etc)?

The outer geometry of a radiator is not really a good indicator of its performance.
Ideally we would have heat transfer rates for each radiator. Unfortunately that information is unavailable to the unwashed masses so the best we can do is gather information on core surface area which in theory should have a fairly high correlation to the heat transfer rates. Perfect? No, but certainly not useless.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top