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Discussion Starter #1
JD from this board mentioned in one of his posts that he had spoken to someone from dimmit at the festival of speed, who had mentioned that someone on their list was considering turbocharging their car. Dimmit said that they were going to do it for him. 400hp was the quoted power. This intrigued me.


I was curious, so I called Dimmit today and spoke with that technician. As I suspected the only stock element of the car would be the block. They had planned on ordering in a block and building it up from there and having it ready. This is if an only if the future owner decided to go turbo, he may not. They dont have a real finite idea of what they would do.... which as I understand it, is why they've been calling around to see whats "out there" on the market. I suspect even though this client may be a "money is no object" person that still doesnt help much if there is nothing out there to work with. "From scratch" projects require R&D and time. He said that he just quoted 400hp because this particular client said "go for it"...it doesnt mean that he has any idea yet what he thinks can be done.

One such place this tech called was Lotus USA. He said he called yesterday and spoke with someone at Lotus USA ( he said the name but Ive forgotten) lRob someone maybe? Last name started with an S. Anyhoo...Lotus USA is tossing around the idea of a supercharger or turbocharger..not in the near future, but a strong possibility none the less.

Im intrigued. If I have the cash laying around I think I have decided to work on my own custom kit, much like I did with my miata. Im going to start calling up my contacts at garret and Electromotive and see what balls I can get rolling. To design a manifold/piping/ etc I will need the car obviously. I also need to decide on what rods and pistons I will use, as well as what C/R strikes my fancy. As I said in one of my posts a month ago, 400hp is a real possibility and while I dont think you need 400hp Elise, Im enjoy having cars with more power than they need,and being the first to do something. I had a blast trying to be the first person to make 300hp to the wheels on a miata..and the elise is all the more fun. This could be real a REAL hoot.


Stay tuned....


Cheers
Jennifer
 

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Jenn,
Aren't you planning on racing your Elise? If so, wouldn't the mods disqualify you? Or are you only planning on hitting 1/8, 1/4 mile racing? ("I live my life a quarter mile at a time" quote resisted here, well sorta :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
We're getting two cars. If I did mod it I'd be thrown in SM2 ( I think) which is where I am already with my turbo miatas. My Monster is in Emod. I can keep one stock and play with the other should I choose I suppose.

I dont live my life a quartermile at a time..in fact I dont drag race much at all, but I will say that having far too much power can be a LOT of fun on the street and roadcourse. Yes of course I know you have to put that power down, and then there's the little unknown that is the toyota tranny and how robust it is or isnt.


400hp is just a number thrown out. Of course a 300hp Elise would be fun too. ;) Like the Esthii, cept homegrown.
 

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Good luck with the project OFM. Are the kind of numbers that customer wants even attainable w/ a SC? Seems like a turbo is the only way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks _JD_

IMHO, no I dont think you would/could see those kinds of numbers with a small supercharger.

With a small t25/28 turbo you could do great things and have little if no lag with less heat and less trouble.

Im not a fan of parasites (SC's). I had one for my Monster Miata just because it would have been an INSANE amount of money to go for a twin turbo V8 setup on a 5 liter miata with the space I have. I ended up selling the Supercharger anyway, leaving the motor normally aspirated and just throwing on some nitrous for the fun times since its a V8 and there are so many nitrous applications out there.....but I hate nitrous too and feel its harsh on motors ( sudden jolt of power).

Turbochargers are my friends.:)
 

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I've never driven a car with nitrous. That's something that I'd like to try. Aside from beating hell out of the motor, what is it like? Like suddenly firing on two more cylinders?
 

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I think that your biggest challenge might be heat management. The Esthii had done some 'creative' bodywork to loose heat via convection. It'll be cool to see how things develop.
 

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Don't know why you guys don't wait, Garrett (company sponsoring zack and his esprit in Grand Am this year) are planning to develop a turbo and kit for the elise for those who are so inclined.

Chris
 

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I don't know how companies are going to make a direct bolt on kit for Any Elise especially the new Toyota powered one with 11.1 compression??? You are definitely going to have to tear down the entire motor and change the pistons and maybe even have the block machined a very expensive project.

I do know a guy that did this with the old Rover motor that had only 10.1 compression. He said in order to get the required boost of 12 to 15 lbs. he absolutley had to change the pistons and we are talking about the old Rover motor with only 10.1 compression. Our US Toyota Elise will have 11.1 compression!!!

Also don't forget by doing this you are saying good bye to a brand new Lotus factory warranty. This is a $40,000 plus car for most of us and a factory warranty can be of value for resale and if you do develope problems with your car God for bid.

With that said, I think it is a cool idea and if it's done right I believe 300+ HP is possible.

Best Wishes,
Mitch
 

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The 2ZZ-GE's compression ratio is actually 11.5:1.

And yes, I also think it'd be a good idea to lower the CR if adding forced induction. Of course, many people don't bother :rolleyes:
 

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hermanslotus said:
With that said, I think it is a cool idea and if it's done right I believe 300+ HP is possible.
Well Lotus could always offer a dealer kit that includes a thicker (0.075") metal head gasket (Cometic?) to drop the compression ratio from 11.5:1 to 9.5:1... BUT of course this alters flame front propagation and cam geometry a whole lot. Anything under 10.0:1 would be helpful.

You could, however run 9psi boost a LOT more reliably... especially with efficient intercooling.

I wouldn't try anything over 10psi without ductile iron resleeving with new connecting rods and proper forged pistons. You MIGHT get another mm bore (up to 83) but I wouldn't count on it... isn't there just 5mm in between bore cylinders?

Silly engineers didn't want anyone to bore this sucker out! :(
 

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There's 5.5mm between cylinders.

There's little room to bore out the engine because, first and foremost, the 2ZZ-GE is a bored and destroked 1ZZ-FE.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
OneFastMiata said:


Im intrigued. If I have the cash laying around I think I have decided to work on my own custom kit, much like I did with my miata. Im going to start calling up my contacts at garret and Electromotive and see what balls I can get rolling. To design a manifold/piping/ etc I will need the car obviously.


I also need to decide on what rods and pistons I will use, as well as what C/R strikes my fancy. Stay tuned....


Cheers
Jennifer
 

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vvtlikick said:
The 2ZZ-GE's compression ratio is actually 11.5:1.

And yes, I also think it'd be a good idea to lower the CR if adding forced induction. Of course, many people don't bother :rolleyes:

11.5:1 in a bone stock motor? How do they expect to run 91 octane pump gas. My old race motor in my BMW had 11.7:1 and I ran Sunoco 100 unleaded race fuel anything less than that resulted in some serious pinging especially on hot days.

I can only imagin if someone puts regular 89 octane in this motor. Ping, Ping,Ping.

vvtlikik did you order an Elise???

Mitch
 

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Re: Re: Regarding Turbocharged Elise.

OneFastMiata said:
Jenn,

Did you say Electromotive???? I guess this is a race car correct. I have The latest Electromotive Tech 3 system on my race motor and no way is that streetable with the problems I have run into. At least I would never run it on the street. For a race car I would say it's ok, but for a street car I don't know it's questionable.


Best Wishes,
Mitch
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yep I said Electromotive. hehe, just ran out and took some pics.

Im running it on three of my cars. All are daily driven. Ive been daily driving the car thats known locally as "Candy Cane" ( red with white stripes) for over 2 years now. Our Silver miata we call ghetto fab, its also daily driven, and doubles as our designated autocross car. In fact when I get done posting here I'm going to head out for a little cruising with friends tonight in this car.

All are pushing lots of power on the stock internal motors. I have the TEC II on both my miatas and a TEC III on an RX7. The only difference in the II and III are the plug in ends and some minor wiring.

My motors arent as pretty as yours though. :)


This is the car we call Candy Cane, red with white stripes. Second fastest miata in the country ET, first fastest MPH. Currently the highest hp miata on the stock internals.

Thats the TEC mounted on the passenger side left with the magnacores coming out of it.

My base dyno before I started my turbo project on the car below was 115hp to the wheels with intake and exhaust. Today this car dyno's at 347 to the rear wheels with 300lb ft. Full custom. Daily driven for over 2 years...and raced too. Tuned to 300 on BP 93 octane pump gas. I run a slurry of pump and race gas for safety measure when racing.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Here is the silver miata we call Ghetto Fabulous. She's not a looker but she's fast as heck and very competative. Has won SM2 year end for 2 years running, and demolished C5 vettes with nitrous in straight lines.

Ive had good luck with Electromotive and pushed some records and barriers with the units with great success. So I tend to stick with what I know. My husband has a Haltech on one of his cars, but Im not as familiar with using it.

There are more pics and info,videos and dyno sheets on my cardomain site URL which is in my the signature at the bottom of my posts.

Im a big fan of dyno'ing after each change, so I have binders filled with dyno sessions and tuning sessions. Im kind of obsessive that way. I figure if you're going to do it, do it right.
 

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hermanslotus said:
11.5:1 in a bone stock motor?...

vvtlikik did you order an Elise???

Mitch
Not too long ago, someone on newcelica.org posted an OBD log showing ignition advance with 91 and 93 octanes. There appears to be little or no difference, suggesting the knock sensor didn't come into play.

From that post:


red : 93 octane, mobile (my car)
green: 91 octane, pace (my car)
blue: 93 octane (another car)
I haven't ordered an Elise. I'll get around to it as soon as I find a spare $45K lying around :(

Also, as for high compression ratios in stock cars, the 2.0L S2000 and 911 GT3 have 11.7:1 CRs :eek:
 
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