The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When I pulled out the engine and trans over the winter I replaced both output shaft seals on the trans due to the fact that the drivers side one was leaking a bit and figured I would replace them while I had it out. I paid close attention to getting it in square and the same depth as the old one and used a seal driver to put it in. Now it seems to be leaking worse, I read on some site that had Esprit tsb's that it could be leaking thru the hole where the roll pin is, has anyone ran into this? If so do you just put a sealant right in the hole before putting the roll pin back in? And finally is there an oring on the spigot/shaft also (i did not replace this if so) or is there only the seal that goes on the casing? thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Leak

Yes it could be leaking through the roll pins if you didn't put some sealant in there. I'm not sure if you can pump sealant into the roll pins after they are seated and be effective but it probably can't hurt anything to try. Also I am presuming you used the UN1 specific seal tool to set the shaft seals. They depth of the seal is a critical one and if you "freehanded" with a regular seal tool you may have gotten the depth of the seating wrong and it could be weeping from the shaft itself. The depth of the seals is different for each side of the transmission case so the tool has a "right side/left side" function.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,147 Posts
There are 2 other possibilities. The output flange may be worn and have a groove in and and the seal won't work. Can be fixed either by welding and machining or a reddi-sleeve. The other possibility is the diff carrier bearings are too loose and the seal is being ruined by the output shaft moving around. Yes, you do have to seal up where the roll pins go also.
David Teitelbaum
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,292 Posts
And yes, there is an o-ring on the splined shaft as well about 2-3 inches from the end inside the case.

If you clean it up and look closely after a short while, you should be able to tell if it's leaking out the roll-pin holes or weeping between the seal and shaft or between the seal and case.

If it is the roll pins, you'll need to pull the cv shaft off again, replace the o-ring, clean and degrease the male and female splines well and then put a good bead of silicone sealant around the splines and then in the roll-pin hole once you have it aligned and then drive in the roll-pins. Give it 24 hours to cure before filling the tranny fluid again.

Good luck,
Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
You guys are making me nervous since I'm doing this repair now. I'm free-handing the seal driving. Is there anything special about this seal that makes the tool so critical? Seems like a normal seal with a fancy dust cover lip. Or is it more complicated somehow? Where do you get this tool? (If my free-hand ends up failing).

You put sealant on the shaft splines? I haven't seen that. Is that really required? For all years? I'd be afraid some of that could find it's way into the transmission after some amount of driving (months, years).

Rock
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Seal Tool

You really need to have the seal setting tool to properly set the seals. Each side is different (requires a different depth) so the tool has two positions - a right and left configuration - when setting the seals. If you are just driving them freehand you are taking a shot in the dark about attaining the proper depth. I think you can rent the tool from JAE or there are folks on the forum who might consider loaning or renting you the tool. You can buy one as well - I know SJ Sportscars sells them for about $100 shipped to the US. JAE might sell (or rent) them - give them a call. Given the amount of preparatory labor (tranny out, etc.) and the cost of the seals it doesn't make any sense to me to try and set them without the tool to insure that the job will come out correctly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,292 Posts
Not to totally disagree with Tom as the seal tool does make the job easier and more precise but it can be done without it. Most important is to pay attention and note the depth of the existing seal before you remove it.

What makes it different from a typical seal installation is that there is no shoulder in the case opening to seat the seal against. You could actually push it all the way into the case if you push too far. The tool just sets it at the correct depth.

If you do have a worn spot on the CV shaft where the seal rides, you could adjust the depth of the seal slightly to an area that's not worn for a better seal but there's not much room for adjustment, maybe a mm or two.

The extra bead of sealant on the splines will help with the leaking. What happens is the gear oil runs down the splines of the shaft and into the end of the CV axle and then out the roll pin holes. It's not in the manual but several of us have been doing it that way for years. It's just a little extra insurance and not a requirement.

Put the extra sealant in the axle end and there's not much chance of it getting into the case. When the axle is fully seated, the open end is against the o-ring on the output shaft so the sealant can't really go anywhere.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
thanks for all the great info!! Does anyone happen to know the dimensions of the roll pins inner and outer? I'd like to just pick a couple up at the local store instead of waiting so I can mess around with it over the weekend. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
The manual says the OD diameters are 6mm and 3.5mm, although I don't know where you get metric rollpins. The small size is probably dependent on the ID of the large one though. Mine are 2" long.

Let us know how it goes. I don't know if I need to bash harder or what, but I can't get my official rollpins in. I did a test and I had to bash it just to get it through the tranny shaft, without the axle on. It just seems like it's too tight to me.

Rock
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Does putting the sealant on the splines and roll pin make it hard to remove the axle the next time it needs to come off?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,505 Posts
The manual says the OD diameters are 6mm and 3.5mm, although I don't know where you get metric rollpins. The small size is probably dependent on the ID of the large one though. Mine are 2" long.

Let us know how it goes. I don't know if I need to bash harder or what, but I can't get my official rollpins in. I did a test and I had to bash it just to get it through the tranny shaft, without the axle on. It just seems like it's too tight to me.

Rock
If I recall the roll pins are a one way fit. Many axles used tapered roll pin housings so they only go one way and if your bashing the pin to get it in sounds to me like the axle is 180 degrees out. You can damage the axle if the holes are out of phase.

This subject has been mentioned before on the turbo Esprit list.

Robert
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
It does sound like the axle is out 180 degrees, but I checked it and it is not. I put the roll pin in the freezer overnight to try to shrink it and tried to drive it into JUST the transmission axle, and I could still barely get it out. I grabbed the old pin and tried the same (without the freezer) and it went in nicely, and the pin really didn't show much deformation from the original installation (i.e. no bashing required). I assure you I can't get the new one into even just the shaft without bashing it. I'm thinking of just reusing the old one, although the 2nd old pin came out broken for some reason so I need to get at least one new pin.

Just measuring the old and new pins shows that the new one is 0.1 inch larger in diameter. Maybe that's normal between a used pin and a new one, I don't know, but something just isn't working with the new one. I tried a 7/32" pin which is about 0.2in smaller diameter, and it just falls right through, so I think 0.1in is a big deal. I'm going to have to order more pins, but at this point I can't see any way to use them besides to try to grind them slightly. It sounds like a hack, and I guess it is, but I don't see another option.

Rock
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,505 Posts
Rock,
The pins your using, are they OEM or a hardware store 'equivalent'?
If your using a digital caliper and reading 1 mm larger in diameter that could have a significant difference... .001 { 1 thousandth } should have no difference because if it's a slotted pin it should compress.

Another thing that can hang up a pin is if the holes are not seated spot on. A trick I used to do was use a tapered punch to align the holes on one side and tap the pin through the other side. If the inner axle is just slightly off from the CV hole the pin will not go in.

Hope this helps,
Robert
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Sorry, I got my dimensions wrong. For the 0.1in I mentioned, I meant 0.01 (and 0.02 for the other). It was 10 thousandths.

They are official rollpins from a Lotus specialist. I'll try to get my next ones from a different specialist just in case there was an error somewhere (doubtful I think).

I am a little concerned about the holes lining up, and that is a good trick you have although hard to do if the holes are filled with sealant. But for my test I'm eliminating the lineup issue by just trying to drive the pin through the one piece (tranny shaft).

Thanks
Rock
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top