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2020 Evora GT in Formula Red, coordinated black+red interior, windowed engine hatch
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yes, I'm a little embarrassed by creating Yet Another Tire Thread. But after hours of reading every tire thread I could find here, and dozens of threads in other forums, and watching hours and hours of YouTube videos, I feel like I have gobs of tire data in my head yet I'm no smarter nor closer to an answer. I've read/watched every comparison I can find and none really nail down my question. I tried to RTFM and not be "that guy" but I'm just not getting there, so please forgive me....

My Evora GT has its original Cup2's, but at 180TW they're wearing fast, especially on our studded-tire-rutted concrete roads around here. I don't track but do plan on attending my first of what may be multiple High Performance Driving Schools this year, and they specifically say not to have any patches or plugs. Since I had a puncture within my first month of ownership (documented in its own thread), I'm looking at replacement tires even though that puncture was professionally repaired.

Generally speaking, I'd like to trade a bit of the Cup2's track-optimized performance for a longer driving season (read: temperature range) and better puncture resistance. Basically move the needle from "99% track, 1% street" to more like "75% track, 25% street". I want to retain spirited Lotus street driving but give up a bit of stickiness in trade for things that matter more on the road.

I live in the Idaho panhandle, way up north. Not a lot of high performance cars nor dealers up here, which means not a lot of high performance tire shops. There's nowhere to "shop around", nobody to talk to. I'll have to blindly mail order whatever I choose, spend the money, and live with the outcome. So I'm trying to be smart about it.

Specific targets:
  • Better cool air temperature performance (I'd like to extend my season a month or so in the Spring and Fall, perhaps down to 40F)
  • Ultra-stiff sidewall to retain steering performance (my main reason for a Lotus in the first place! I don't care about "comfort", I care about the driving experience)
  • Better wet performance than the Cup2 (it rains here in the Pacific Northwest)
  • Treadwear hopefully 300TW or higher (better puncture resistance, I'm a bit oversensitive to this after getting my first flat in ~25 years with the Cup2's)

Things I don't care about that others seem to:
  • Appearance
  • Road noise
  • Brand name
  • Cost

I do not want all-season tires. You give up too much to get barely modest snow+ice behavior. This car does NOT get driven in snow+ice so there is no reason to oversacrifice "extended summer" performance for road conditions it will never see.

For a while I was leaning toward the Conti EC Sport; good TW and decent reviews, but reports of squishy sidewalls killed it AND Conti's own website says they won't fit the 2020 Evora GT (despite owners here actually using them!). I realize "if it fits, it fits" but I'm a bit spooked when the manufacturer says "No".

I also strongly considered the Michelin PS4S. It's the closest to a "universally acclaimed UUHP tire" and being a sister to the Cup2 I figure it has a good chance of fitting the Evora GT well. However, I've read multiple reports of "losing that fine degree of steering feel" and the design is getting a bit older now, there have been lots of new tires designed in the meantime so it's hard to imagine that nobody has improved upon it by now. This is also why I've sort of sidelined the PZero, etc... awesome in their day but technology marches on.

I've read several positive things about the Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport. I just don't know much about Goodyear in terms of true UUHP tires.

Conti's SportContact 6 seems to get good reviews. But I can't figure out how it compares in their lineup with the ExtremeContact series. Conti's website isn't clear on why you'd favor the SC6 over, say, the ECS. And I haven't confirmed that Conti believes the SC6 will fit the Evora GT.

I could keep naming names but you get the idea. Every article and every comparison seems to emphasize the wrong thing. "Let's learn which tire is best for daily driving!" "Yeah, you lose that driving feel but they're so much softer over the freeway expansion joints." "If road noise bothers you, this is your tire!" "Lower rolling resistance will save you money with today's high gas prices."

C'MON. How about a "Cup1.25", a tire that retains the track-like sidewalls but gives up a bit of track tread design (better for wet) and hardens the rubber (better for low temps and road hazards). Anyone know if such a tire exists? I can't be the only one that wants this combo.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Have you compared them to the Cup2 in terms of steering feel? That was the observation that gave me pause, and I read/heard it from multiple sources. That's the one-and-only thing holding me back from the PS4S. If not for that, I'd have no more questions. I'm thrilled with how the Lotus feels with the Cup2's and terrified I'm going to lose that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yep, strong thread for the PS4S and then you read this: "The PS4S give just a tad bit more compliance and a better ride which I think on an Evora might be noticeable". Which is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. Generally speaking, "better ride" equals "softer sidewall" and "less feedback". Same with "more compliance".
 

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For summer tires don't know if Nitto NT05's are available in the sizes you need but maybe worth looking into. I found them to be very precise handling on an Esprit.
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Motor vehicle


Just a point of order about summer vs all-season. It's not only snow/ice performance but what temperature range you want to drive in. Recommendations vary but summer tires are generally not supposed to be driven below 40~45deg F. Some say in temps around 35F or so the car shouldn't even be sitting with its weight on the tires, ie they should be stored off the vehicle or have it on jacks. Seems a bit extreme but food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I haven't researched the NT05's. Yikes, more reading ahead! {grin} But I do appreciate the tip. MORE: They have treadwear of 200 (or less depending upon which number on the Nitto website you use). Doubt that will improve road hazard resistance or cold temp handling but I bet they stick like glue!

On storage: My solution for the Cup2's is as follows. The Lotus lives in a sealed, but unheated, garage over the winter and we have temps that drop below 0F. I park the car for the winter, with the tires resting on a double layer of that closed-cell foam that people use to pad floors when they have to stand for long periods (about one inch total thickness). Then I inflate the tires to their max rated pressure of 50 PSI. I distilled this approach from lots of arguments, some good and some bad, regarding this topic. My theory is that max pressure helps prevent flat spots and minimizes flexure of the sidewalls to prevent low-temp cracking, and the foam distributes the pressure over a greater surface area of each tire to again reduce flexure. I don't move the car again until sustained daily temps are over 40F for quite a while, thus allowing the tires to warm slowly and gently with no rolling stress. On their first outing they get driven very slowly and gently to put heat into them gradually.

Some of the tire storage arguments are pretty entertaining. "You can never, ever let [tire model] get below [scary temperature]." So do they think they're shipping them across country (or ocean) in heated containers? Or do the tire manufacturers only ship them when it's summer in both hemispheres at the same time? {grin} Some common sense is needed.
 

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Have you compared them to the Cup2 in terms of steering feel? That was the observation that gave me pause, and I read/heard it from multiple sources. That's the one-and-only thing holding me back from the PS4S. If not for that, I'd have no more questions. I'm thrilled with how the Lotus feels with the Cup2's and terrified I'm going to lose that.
I tried Cup2's on a GT350 stang and didn't care for them on street, and certainly not wet roads. Not good ROI for my wallet/driving style.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I tried Cup2's on a GT350 stang and didn't care for them on street, and certainly not wet roads.
Precisely why I want to move the needle a bit away from "track" and closer to "street". But keeping the stiff sidewalls so steering feedback isn't affected. I would think sidewall stiffness is a parameter that could be controlled a bit separately from, say, the rubber compound choice and the tread design. Obviously everything's interrelated but this seems possible.
 

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To me with your Criteria Continental ECS is a no brainer choice. All around fabulous tire and you don't have to pay for the fat guy's diet (Michelin man). Available in every darn size known to man!
On street compliance is a good thing. Sidewalls don't have to be concrete to work these days. Conti ECS would receive same critique.
I have run them on a Miata, 2 Evoras, , if sizing aligns , my Quad.....Unless you live and routinely drive in the 40's don't go down to a UHP. BTW on street you have NEVER gotten your Cup2 up to operating temp unless it was 90 outside....DotR's get used to make performance numbers these days but are usually lousy street tires.

Try Michelin PS4's or Conti ECS on street compared to those Cup2's and you will think you have slot car.
 
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Specific targets:
  • Better cool air temperature performance (I'd like to extend my season a month or so in the Spring and Fall, perhaps down to 40F)
  • Ultra-stiff sidewall to retain steering performance (my main reason for a Lotus in the first place! I don't care about "comfort", I care about the driving experience)
  • Better wet performance than the Cup2 (it rains here in the Pacific Northwest)
  • Treadwear hopefully 300TW or higher (better puncture resistance, I'm a bit oversensitive to this after getting my first flat in ~25 years with the Cup2's)

Things I don't care about that others seem to:
  • Appearance
  • Road noise
  • Brand name
  • Cost
Since cost is not an issue your answer is MPS4’s. These are at the top of the pack for wet and dry performance street tires. Cup 2’s are far suprior on the track but I agree with you on a wet road they suck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Since cost is not an issue your answer is MPS4’s. These are at the top of the pack for wet and dry performance street tires.
So not the "S" suffix version? The older, standard PS4 tire? Why not the later "S"? I'm honestly curious.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
To me with your Criteria Continental ECS is a no brainer choice. Unless you live and routinely drive in the 40's don't go down to a UHP.
40F driving would be edge cases, at the very start and end of the non-winter season here. Yes, I want to stay with an UUHP.

Try Michelin PS4's or Conti ECS on street compared to those Cup2's and you will think you have slot car.
I already think I have a slot car {grin} and that's what I'm afraid of losing, hence this thread. Are you saying the PS4S or the ECS will actually perform better on the street than the Cup2, because the Cup2 is out of its element so to speak? And the (reported) loss of sidewall stiffness won't matter as much as a result? I'm trying to fully understand your observation.
 

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The PS4s is your tire. They were great in all weather over freezing, but for me I track often and they delaminate if driven hard after 5 full track days. Note the Cup 2 Connects are 240 wear and closer to what your describing but won’t give you the wet and cold performance of the PS4s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Feels like I'm back to my PS4S vs. ECS self-argument, but at least this time I'm getting it from Lotus owners with actual experience! I really appreciate it.

PS4S: Close sister to the Cup2 that ships on the car, so basically no question it will fit. Just above this post, dogtag14 says "the PS4S is your tire".
ECS: Conti website says it doesn't fit. Owners here say it does. Let's presume it does. In this thread, brgelise says it's a "no brainer".

So... between the (older but known and loved) PS4S and the (newer and thus possibly better tech) ECS... what's the vote on an Evora GT?
 

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Scott M
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+1 For the Michelin PS4S. They're on my Evora S and other summer vehicles. It's my favorite street tire for the needs/preference the OP described.
No idea if the right sizes are even available, but I like the Falken 660 or Yokohama A052 better for more street + track or street + autocross type considerations respectively.

(I also ought to acknowledge a complete hatred of all Conti offerings based on unbelievably poor performance & wear historically for me: never again. Just my bias and $0.02 though)
 

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Yes, I'm a little embarrassed by creating Yet Another Tire Thread. But after hours of reading every tire thread I could find here, and dozens of threads in other forums, and watching hours and hours of YouTube videos, I feel like I have gobs of tire data in my head yet I'm no smarter nor closer to an answer. I've read/watched every comparison I can find and none really nail down my question. I tried to RTFM and not be "that guy" but I'm just not getting there, so please forgive me....

My Evora GT has its original Cup2's, but at 180TW they're wearing fast, especially on our studded-tire-rutted concrete roads around here. I don't track but do plan on attending my first of what may be multiple High Performance Driving Schools this year, and they specifically say not to have any patches or plugs. Since I had a puncture within my first month of ownership (documented in its own thread), I'm looking at replacement tires even though that puncture was professionally repaired.

Generally speaking, I'd like to trade a bit of the Cup2's track-optimized performance for a longer driving season (read: temperature range) and better puncture resistance. Basically move the needle from "99% track, 1% street" to more like "75% track, 25% street". I want to retain spirited Lotus street driving but give up a bit of stickiness in trade for things that matter more on the road.

I live in the Idaho panhandle, way up north. Not a lot of high performance cars nor dealers up here, which means not a lot of high performance tire shops. There's nowhere to "shop around", nobody to talk to. I'll have to blindly mail order whatever I choose, spend the money, and live with the outcome. So I'm trying to be smart about it.

Specific targets:
  • Better cool air temperature performance (I'd like to extend my season a month or so in the Spring and Fall, perhaps down to 40F)
  • Ultra-stiff sidewall to retain steering performance (my main reason for a Lotus in the first place! I don't care about "comfort", I care about the driving experience)
  • Better wet performance than the Cup2 (it rains here in the Pacific Northwest)
  • Treadwear hopefully 300TW or higher (better puncture resistance, I'm a bit oversensitive to this after getting my first flat in ~25 years with the Cup2's)

Things I don't care about that others seem to:
  • Appearance
  • Road noise
  • Brand name
  • Cost

I do not want all-season tires. You give up too much to get barely modest snow+ice behavior. This car does NOT get driven in snow+ice so there is no reason to oversacrifice "extended summer" performance for road conditions it will never see.

For a while I was leaning toward the Conti EC Sport; good TW and decent reviews, but reports of squishy sidewalls killed it AND Conti's own website says they won't fit the 2020 Evora GT (despite owners here actually using them!). I realize "if it fits, it fits" but I'm a bit spooked when the manufacturer says "No".

I also strongly considered the Michelin PS4S. It's the closest to a "universally acclaimed UUHP tire" and being a sister to the Cup2 I figure it has a good chance of fitting the Evora GT well. However, I've read multiple reports of "losing that fine degree of steering feel" and the design is getting a bit older now, there have been lots of new tires designed in the meantime so it's hard to imagine that nobody has improved upon it by now. This is also why I've sort of sidelined the PZero, etc... awesome in their day but technology marches on.

I've read several positive things about the Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport. I just don't know much about Goodyear in terms of true UUHP tires.

Conti's SportContact 6 seems to get good reviews. But I can't figure out how it compares in their lineup with the ExtremeContact series. Conti's website isn't clear on why you'd favor the SC6 over, say, the ECS. And I haven't confirmed that Conti believes the SC6 will fit the Evora GT.

I could keep naming names but you get the idea. Every article and every comparison seems to emphasize the wrong thing. "Let's learn which tire is best for daily driving!" "Yeah, you lose that driving feel but they're so much softer over the freeway expansion joints." "If road noise bothers you, this is your tire!" "Lower rolling resistance will save you money with today's high gas prices."

C'MON. How about a "Cup1.25", a tire that retains the track-like sidewalls but gives up a bit of track tread design (better for wet) and hardens the rubber (better for low temps and road hazards). Anyone know if such a tire exists? I can't be the only one that wants this combo.

Thanks!
don't overthink it, the Michelin PS4 are the gold standard. The sport cups are race tires so nothing other than another race tire will perform as well AT THE LIMIT, which by your own admission your track experience is just beginning. You will have as much fun at a track event with any of the tires others have mentioned or a full race slick, the difference will only show in lap times. The reasons Michelin PS4 is so well liked is: weight of the tire, easy to balance, resistance to flat spots from sitting, wet performance and great dry performance. You do get what you pay for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
don't overthink it, the Michelin PS4 are the gold standard. The reasons Michelin PS4 is so well liked is: weight of the tire, easy to balance, resistance to flat spots from sitting, wet performance and great dry performance. You do get what you pay for.
I note you left off the trailing "S" for the latest model of that tire. Was that an oversight, or did you actually mean the PS4 and not the PS4S? I'm asking because there is a raging debate in some circles about whether the "old PS4" is better than the "new PS4S". Thanks!
 
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