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Discussion Starter #1
I've been told my laser blue touring will be built in Nov for Dec delivery.

Seeing as how it has been rumored here that LSD will be available before the end of the year, it just seems likely that I could be able to order it now (mind you, my initial order was asked for way back in April or May -- it's been so long I've forgotten).

Seeing as how LSD isn't to my knowledge yet an official option, how does one go about making the request with any likelihood of having the request filled?

Please encourage someone at Lotus to answer this frankly.

Added incentive:
I would think that those of you who want to eventually autocross your 2005 elises with a retrofitted manufacturer's offered LSD option would also be anxious for me and those like me to get ours delivered with LSD this year.
 

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My car should be built in a similar time frame, maybe slightly earlier. I ask the dealer about the LSD every time I talk to them. They don't see much of a chance that it could be available this soon. March '05 was mentioned as a target at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
ConeFusion said:
My car should be built in a similar time frame, maybe slightly earlier. I ask the dealer about the LSD every time I talk to them. They don't see much of a chance that it could be available this soon. March '05 was mentioned as a target at some point.
We already know that what a dealer "knows" may not be all that clear or definitive. Certainly something that MUST BE A MAKER OPTION (under SCCA rules) has to be declared by Hethel. A dealer's opinion may have some insider information, but it will not be the last word.

That's why I started this thread today. Even if it's just factory writing offering LSD as an option would be welcome. And if I'm reading it right, it must be done shortly, before the end of the year.

I'd like very much to have my car with LSD. I don't even expect to autocross it actively if at all. I'd just like to have it.

But those of you who suspect it would help your autocrossing should actively seek that I and those like me (slated for late delivery) will get LSD.

It looks like my car may be among the last to be delivered in 2004.

If I don't get an LSD equipped elise, won't this make any retrofit to other 2004 delivered "2005" elises ineligible under SCCA autocross rules?


Maybe I have it wrong. But if I'm right, I'd think all you sports who want it for those cars already delivered should be lobbying about now -- and very loudly.

Also, you guys who already have your cars may be SOL when the 2005 delivered elises eventually do come with LSD.
How would you like to have to be put in the position (to protect your own interests) of lobbying against fellow elise drivers who have LSD installed?

Randy, Jen, Jer, Stan ?
 

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Aw, you'll need t talk to LCUSA directly for answer to this I think. I can't undestand why really but there certainly is no need for LSD at the track. I suppose it must be beecause of no rear sway bar. If Lotus don't think I need one I'll trust them for now.
Does anyone think it really *needs* LSD for AX?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
From what I've read in a few other threads on the topic, Adamant, it appears that LSD slows the elise for the track. But at AX, the elise is a different animal entirely.

Another LSD datapoint

and

LSD confirmation!

The actuality of LSD being available THIS YEAR appears to be still undecided. It appears to be important to quite a few, and so I'm prodding anyone who may have forgotten that time is running low.

Thanks for your interest.
 

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Ancient Wedgie said:
If I don't get an LSD equipped elise, won't this make any retrofit to other 2004 delivered "2005" elises ineligible under SCCA autocross rules
It just needs to be offered as a factory option before the end of the model year. So that could be as late as fall '05. The calendar year doesn't matter.
 

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This year as in the last few months don't matter to the SCCA...it's the *model* year. So if a 2005 model is at some point factory optionable with an LSD, it can be retrofitted to the early 2005 cars without issue. If the LSD were to be put on in the port or at the dealer on new cars this would not be okay. But if new cars show up on our shores with an LSD inside, then the dealer or whoever can add one to a car. Clearer?

I've autocrossed the LTS car twice so far (third time tomorrow and with a National level co-driver) and the need for a limited slip is not crystal clear so far. Some cars just scream out for one as there is frequent, obvious wheelspin going on and you can't floor the throttle and so forth. On my M3 for example a limited slip is vital and must be at 100% for the best results.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well, that's a relief Reto.

Since the first "2005" was delivered in July 2004, would the model year end in July 2005, or is it up to the maker?

Stan,
You may be right that you can get along without LSD. The rear doesn't sway nearly so much as the fore. If the drive wheels mostly stay glued, you'd be right. Depends, too, on what one means by "mostly."

Still I'd like to drive one just to see the diff.

Thanks for passing along your experiences.
 

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>>>Still I'd like to drive one just to see the diff. <<<

In many circumstances, there is just not that much slip to limit in the first place. Some cars with open diffs can light up one tire coming out of every turn. Such cars are obviously limited by a lack of corner exit traction for acceleration. The Elise is not in that category. There may be times when one may help, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to express that the Elise comes with a ton of rear traction for acceleration. And if Lotus is going to offer one, it's pretty likely that they'll do this during the 2005 model year making it SCCA compatible.

Also, don't forget that most cars with open diffs that scream "please please get me a limited slip" have a corner exit accel traction reducing sway bar on that end of the car. Or a crummy F/R weight bias. The early SRT4, the Minis S, many muscle cars.. The Elise has no rear sway bar to cause an inside rear tire to get light and prematurely lose traction. And a 62% rear weight bias combined with a fairly low torque motor.

If you read Carroll Smith's "XXXX To Win" series you'll find that even an experienced guy like him was delighted at the great reduction in the need for a limited slip when a bar was not used on the drive end of the car.
 

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AW - I'm with you. I expect to be in the fall order queue for a early spring delivery. And I'd like to get the LSD from the factory if possible..... The Elise will need all the power to the ground it can get - if there is even a hint of wheelspin, it will be hard to win.

While we're at it, a set of adjustable Nitron's would be a nice addition too.... certainly worth a premium.

Steve
'94 Miata
'05 Elise Touring/LSS/??
 

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Does Lotus actually have to deliver a car with the LSD for it to be legal or merely offer it in an official capacity as a factory delivvered option?

Could Lotus offer a Torsen differential as an option for say $250,000, and if nobody orders the option, and it would still be legal?

Greg
 

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Racer X said:
Does Lotus actually have to deliver a car with the LSD for it to be legal or merely offer it in an official capacity as a factory delivvered option?
They only have to offer it.


Could Lotus offer a Torsen differential as an option for say $250,000, and if nobody orders the option, and it would still be legal?
Yes
 

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AW, I recall the earlier threads and I fully understand the need for competitiveness in SCCA Solo II. In my mind there still has been no proof that LSD will improve AX times. I AX for fun and prefer track events, I WANT to see the Elise be as competitive as possible in AX so I want to be SURE that LSD will indeed create faster times. I hope Lotus come back with an answer before the 2006 model.
 

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Ancient Wedgie said:
Shhhhhh. I gave it a low profile. It was too rich for some -- obviously. :p
Naw... I noticed it right off. But I thought I'd be nice and let it go...:p
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The following is NOT good news, but it is another data point around which Fed Elise autocrossers may want to gather.

This from Biobaggie's recounting of his tour of Hethel:
I was also told that there are no current plans to introduce any factory performance packages/factory options (turbo, supercharger, LSD, suspension etc) since these would again require registration for import to the USA which Annette explained was very difficult. I guess the current DOT exemption is limited to the specific configuration of the current Fed Elise and any new factory fitted mods would require US import registration of what is in effect a new Elise model. LSD is available but only as an after market option.

It restates my worst fears -- that the costs related to satisfying DOT demands is the cause we cannot get Lotus to specify LSD as a manufacturer option.
If true, the following is an appropriate way to state Lotus' unenviable position with regard to us: <i>"You can have the Fed Elise because we obtained an exemption due to the Toyota drivetrain, but that prevents us from offering an LSD option because Toyota never offered it. " </i>

This may also explain why the Euro Exige, with otherwise the same drivetrain as our Fed Elise, has a Lotus specified LSD but we do not. (Which makes me wonder: Is the Euro Elise still Rover powered?)

Okay. So let's say it is true that Lotus is prevented from offering us the LSD as an option due to the expense they sidestepped for the ability to offer the Elise in the US. <b>Then by what exemption is any US dealer permitted to offer LSD as an option?</b>

Why should SCCA be so rigid about this? Seems that that rigidity is what is more easily addressed than anything else. <b>At far less expense.</b>
 

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I think the SCCA has addressed this, you can run in ASP. :)

Anyway, I agree its a dissapointment, and if this is the reason we are getting now combined with the Exige getting LSD, that contradicts the previous statements about the LSD messing up handling, etc.
 

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With all due respect to the person giving the tour, that is not accurate.

Adding LSD does not require anything from the US DOT, anymore than Lotus deciding that you can use a different radio.

There is a reason it is not being offered yet, and that involves a lot of testing and how the Elise is responding to those tests on their track. The engineers are not pleased yet, though they have mentioned that they think there is a possible solution. It still might happen. But it will not be as soon or as cheap as I originally hoped.
 
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