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Discussion Starter #1
I realize rFactor is not actual track experience, but I'm trying to get ready for my first track day at Thunderhill in Northern California so I'm practicing with my "simulator".

That said, I'm having an issue with turn 10 and 11. I'm constantly coming in too hot due to lack of landmarks (within the game). I see the flagging station on turn 10, however there is no curbing or braking markers on either turn.

Is that the way it is on the actual track? Any tips?
 

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Is that the way it is on the actual track? Any tips?
eYup--it's in the middle of nowhere, just like the track itself.

As I crest the hill after Turn 9 (T9), there will be about 1 second where I can see the T10 apex. It seems like a long ways down the track to T10 but that quick glance will give me some idea of where I want to go. As I'm coming into T10, I don't look directly at the turn-in but rather in my peripheral vision; instead, look towards the apex. When I start to turn-in (actually before), I look towards the exit and pick up the apex in my foreground vision. (This is pretty much textbook for most turns.)

T11: there is no good way around it. I just look for the least bad way. ;) Brake hard and in a straight line before your turn-in. It's a sacrifice turn... I suggest first finding a solid and safe exit out of T13. When you know where you want to be coming out of T13, figure out what you need to do out of T12 to make T13 happen. Then figure out what you need out of T11 to make T12 and T13 happen. Sort of a backward cascade.

Hope this helps... and makes sense. Good luck. :)
 

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Ok, I'm turning 2:13 lap times in a stock C6 (non-ZO6) Vette (I don't have a Lotus rFactor model...if anyone knows where to get a Esprit, Elise or Exige model please let me know). The only mods to the car I've made is the addition of "track day gripper" tires and Z51 6speed tranny. I've fixed my T10 and T11 problem by braking MUCH harder and by getting familiar with the turns. :D
 

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In reality, Turn 10 has nice positive camber and can typically be taken faster than your nerves will allow. I wouldn't worry about Turn 10 when you drive Thill for real.

Turn 11, on the other hand, is a throw away turn. The key is to get in position for Turns 12 and 13.
 

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Youtube is your friend. :) There's lots of video about. Including mine.

That said, kerbing and marks on the ground will be gone now, as the track is now being repaved. But you'll get a good idea for the track.

Listen to your instructors. There's a lot of subleties to the track you won't have to worry about your first time, but eventually you will care :)

Anyway, here's video from the last day the track ran on the old pavement:


Steve
 

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Thanks Steve. I always enjoy watching your videos, lots of action. :D
 

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What group are you going with and what day?

I'll be there on 23/24 with NASA.

Many over brake for T10, as Steve said, it is actually a much faster corner than it appears, some camber, and wide.

Big lap time savers are T8 and T9. T8 is flat but you have to commit. T9 has a blind crest so you need to make sure you're setup for exit, again this is a much faster corner than it appears and the uphill tends to bleed speed.

Watch out for pheasants, I hit one going into T9.

In my old race car I was running 2:02 (mid pack) Toyos, in a Street STi 2:03 Toyos.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
What group are you going with and what day?

I'll be there on 23/24 with NASA.

Many over brake for T10, as Steve said, it is actually a much faster corner than it appears, some camber, and wide.

Big lap time savers are T8 and T9. T8 is flat but you have to commit. T9 has a blind crest so you need to make sure you're setup for exit, again this is a much faster corner than it appears and the uphill tends to bleed speed.

Watch out for pheasants, I hit one going into T9.

In my old race car I was running 2:02 (mid pack) Toyos, in a Street STi 2:03 Toyos.
21st with HoD (Hooked on Minis day). I best bring my brother in law...he's a pheasant hunter! :D
 

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We might be there on the 22nd, but it's not definite. You will have a good time, HOD is a great group for beginners.

Steve
 

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Mr Know: I can't remember the last time I was on track -- it's been that long! OK, it's probably been only 8-10-12 weeks, but it feels a lot longer. I am going to try to make this Hooked On Mini day, so I'll look for you (I would be in an orange Elise).

I can't remember your driving history -- is this your first time on track or just your first time at Thunderhill? I ask for this reason: I think playing a sim and watching videos is a great way to imprint the track configuration in your brain. In fact, we pretty much know this helps. That said, there is no way a sim can really prepare a newbie for the actual real-time experience of track driving. (As you yourself explained in the first post!) Even if the sim is incredibly accurate as far as geometry and physics, it can't really impart the sense of danger, urgency, excitement, sensory overload, etc, that real driving entails. At least no sim I've driven can.

My point is that I wouldn't advise that you concern yourself too much with braking points. Anything you think you know from the sim will be thrown out (or at least recallibrated) once you start driving on the real thing. FWIW, I would focus on learning the track config; where the lefts are, where the rights are, what the general geometry feels like. This will be hugely helpful.

Now throw out all of the above if you have a good level of track experience, because if that's the case, I'm preaching to the converted. :)

FWIW, T10 has brake markers and I essentially use these to determine my braking points. And I agree with others: The corner is much faster than it would appear, and for me it has much more to do with guts than trying to find the right braking point. I usually brake at the 3, or just before or after, but still typically overslow the damn corner with too much brake pressure. :(

As for T11, I don't know exactly what I look for on driver's right -- it's too automatic and "unconscious" now -- but there's some kind of landmark on the edge that I use as a braking point. It may be a seam between the berm and dirt (which will probably be erased by the repave!). At any rate, when I first drove Thunderhill, I overcooked T11. Most first-timers do. It is indeed a throwaway corner. Slow dowwwnnnn, and then prepare to completely straighten out the path through 12 and 13.
 

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Off topic...

Glad to see a fellow simmer here. If you ever want to join us, my team has a weekly race night every Monday evening. Come and join us! We run Race07, LiveForSpeed, iRacing, and GTR2. We used to run rFactor, and still do sometimes, but it is kind of cartooney in the graphics and the physics model is a little off compared to simbin games... but to each his own. rFactor has some good stuff (mainly the modding capability). Hopefully GTR Evolution will be a one-stop shop for all needs.

Anyway, check us out if you (or any other simmers here) are interested:
Home of the Eagle Racing Sim Racing Team - Welcome!

There is race night info, ventrilo comms status and IP info, and a link for our forum.

The front page gets updated usually on Thursdays to show the race night scenario for the following Monday.

We also have shooter night on Wednesdays, mostly COD4. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
JonOrangeElise said:
I am going to try to make this Hooked On Mini day, so I'll look for you (I would be in an orange Elise).

I can't remember your driving history -- is this your first time on track or just your first time at Thunderhill? I ask for this reason: I think playing a sim and watching videos is a great way to imprint the track configuration in your brain. In fact, we pretty much know this helps. That said, there is no way a sim can really prepare a newbie for the actual real-time experience of track driving. (As you yourself explained in the first post!) Even if the sim is incredibly accurate as far as geometry and physics, it can't really impart the sense of danger, urgency, excitement, sensory overload, etc, that real driving entails. At least no sim I've driven can.

My point is that I wouldn't advise that you concern yourself too much with braking points. Anything you think you know from the sim will be thrown out (or at least recallibrated) once you start driving on the real thing. FWIW, I would focus on learning the track config; where the lefts are, where the rights are, what the general geometry feels like. This will be hugely helpful.

FWIW, T10 has brake markers and I essentially use these to determine my braking points. And I agree with others: The corner is much faster than it would appear, and for me it has much more to do with guts than trying to find the right braking point. I usually brake at the 3, or just before or after, but still typically overslow the damn corner with too much brake pressure. :(

As for T11, I don't know exactly what I look for on driver's right -- it's too automatic and "unconscious" now -- but there's some kind of landmark on the edge that I use as a braking point. It may be a seam between the berm and dirt (which will probably be erased by the repave!). At any rate, when I first drove Thunderhill, I overcooked T11. Most first-timers do. It is indeed a throwaway corner. Slow dowwwnnnn, and then prepare to completely straighten out the path through 12 and 13.
This will be my first time driving on track. I did a ride along with LarryB at Sears Point which was an amazing and humbling experience. -eek-:D That session made me REALLY realize that simulators definitely have their limits. Basically, I'm just trying to do all I can to familiarize myself with the track layout, to minimize the learning curve once I'm doing it for real.

Thanks for the tips on the turns and I'll look for you there. Doubt I'll be able to miss your Chrome Orange Elise. :D

Smoky said:
Glad to see a fellow simmer here. If you ever want to join us, my team has a weekly race night every Monday evening. Come and join us! We run Race07, LiveForSpeed, iRacing, and GTR2. We used to run rFactor, and still do sometimes, but it is kind of cartooney in the graphics and the physics model is a little off compared to simbin games... but to each his own. rFactor has some good stuff (mainly the modding capability). Hopefully GTR Evolution will be a one-stop shop for all needs.

Anyway, check us out if you (or any other simmers here) are interested:
Home of the Eagle Racing Sim Racing Team - Welcome!

There is race night info, ventrilo comms status and IP info, and a link for our forum.

The front page gets updated usually on Thursdays to show the race night scenario for the following Monday.
I own rFactor and GTR2, along with a G25 Logitech wheel. Sadly, I haven't been able to tweek GTR2 to the point where I like it...I really need to research it better. I'll have to look up your team sometime and see. I'm sure its great fun. :D
 

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We might be there on the 22nd, but it's not definite. You will have a good time, HOD is a great group for beginners.

Steve
I'll be there on the 22nd with Yellow #66. As an HOD coach will work with Lotus drivers, preferrably.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks. I bought, joined, downloaded Thunderhill and have an "error loading MAS" so it's back to reading how to's.:(
Tell me more, so I might be able to help. Can PM me so it doesn't mess up this thread.

I'll be there on the 22nd with Yellow #66. As an HOD coach will work with Lotus drivers, preferrably.
Sounds only Jon and I are on the 21st so far. LarryB is doing the 22nd as well from what he said.
 

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Tell me more, so I might be able to help. Can PM me so it doesn't mess up this thread.


Sounds only Jon and I are on the 21st so far. LarryB is doing the 22nd as well from what he said.
Yep, just signed up for the 21st. If the weather isn't too punishing, I will likely stay for the 22nd as well. David Ray of HOD tells me that attendance is pretty low for both events; shouldn't be difficult to give him a check for the 22nd on the 21st... :)
 

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Yep, just signed up for the 21st. If the weather isn't too punishing, I will likely stay for the 22nd as well. David Ray of HOD tells me that attendance is pretty low for both events; shouldn't be difficult to give him a check for the 22nd on the 21st... :)
That would be awesome...but I'm certain the wife wouldn't like it much. :D
 
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