Rich S (and any other HHR folks w/ Track Pack)
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What kind of changes, if any, do you see in your laptimes with the track pack set on race settings (8/9 IIRC) vs. street settings? (2/3?).
Also, subjectively, do you see less understeer on corner exit with the stiffer settings keeping the front down better, longer?
Thanks - still trying to dial this beast in
Also, subjectively, do you see less understeer on corner exit with the stiffer settings keeping the front down better, longer?
Thanks - still trying to dial this beast in
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Nope - haven't been out since - but I've been pulling my (and your) data apart and figuring a few things out. I realized that I ran last time on very soft street settings, which theoretically would allow much faster weight transfer back under acceleration and exacerbate the corner-exit understeer I was fighting with. I was hoping to get down for an hour or so today but work killed that idea, and Thursday will be difficult as well (and I'm bringing the MX5 down Friday most likely).I have Nitrons not Trackpack. Ive never taken them out of the Sector111 recommended track settings... I guess thats not much help..
BTW, have you been back to H2R since the last time we were out there? If so what did you end up putting down?
If I can pick up .75 in 1/2/3 and the resulting straight (which I think I can) and the shock changes work they way I hope/expect I think I'll be somewhere in the 27s stock with a little more seat time in the Exige.
I don't see a problem getting into the 1:27's in a stock car. Comparing my data against yours it looks like its not going to be to hard to pick up some time. I think your biggest gains will come from T5 & T8 though.
I'm probably going to bring the Exige down Friday if you want to take a ride with me.
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I think I'm running a relatively soft setting (5 in front? 6 or 7 in back?), maybe even lighter than that.
I moved everything up to 9 at one point and hated it, but I'm not sure that it was a "I'm not used to this thing" or a "This is actually worse thing". I've actually thought about spending some time to find some ideal settings.
I moved everything up to 9 at one point and hated it, but I'm not sure that it was a "I'm not used to this thing" or a "This is actually worse thing". I've actually thought about spending some time to find some ideal settings.
Well.. I'll let ya know what I find out
Well.. I'm not sure. Softer may get you more absolute lateral traction, but at Exige power levels, softer may lift the front and compromise traction coming out of corners -- exactly the issue I'm dealing with now, and one reason why I think stiffening may help me quite a bit. OTOH, your spring rates are already so much higher than mine that you won't have anywhere near as much weight transfer anyway so softening YOUR setup may be appropriate.
The third factor is that the autocross guys swear that, contrary to what should happen, stiffening the front actually increases front traction (laterally) because the car likes to roll out of optimum contact, so there's that factor as well.
I'm going to try and get down to HHR sometime soon for a day and play with all that stuff and see if I can come to any solid conclusions.
FYI, one of the biggest things I did to gain speed at H2R was to get on the throttle more smoothly which reduced understeer and allowed me to get on the throttle a bit sooner. Maybe a smaller initial throttle input would help you as well.
No doubt. But if I can smooth out the throttle AND keep the front more planted it's even better.
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460 Posts
Nothing beyond the basics...
Geezer,
Sounds like your car has a set-up that is really similar to mine. I have been using the 'factory suggested' set-up for the most part. I have not messed with that because I doubt that I'd notice the subtle differences when consistency by the driver is the challenge.
IMHO, I'd just pick a setting and stay with it until you really get to know the car. Then you can make one adjustment at a time and keep a log of the results (tire pressures, tread depth, rubber temperatures, shock settings, sway bar settings, weather conditions, lap times, subjective feel of the car, etc...) so that you can have data to look at.
Somewhat OCD-like, but if you look at the professional teams, they have people dedicated to each of these aspects and they keep track of all this for a reason.
Again, IMHO, pick a setting and have fun driving / learning the car.
Geezer,
Sounds like your car has a set-up that is really similar to mine. I have been using the 'factory suggested' set-up for the most part. I have not messed with that because I doubt that I'd notice the subtle differences when consistency by the driver is the challenge.
IMHO, I'd just pick a setting and stay with it until you really get to know the car. Then you can make one adjustment at a time and keep a log of the results (tire pressures, tread depth, rubber temperatures, shock settings, sway bar settings, weather conditions, lap times, subjective feel of the car, etc...) so that you can have data to look at.
Somewhat OCD-like, but if you look at the professional teams, they have people dedicated to each of these aspects and they keep track of all this for a reason.
Again, IMHO, pick a setting and have fun driving / learning the car.
Yes. BUT.. I'm not down to shaving 10ths yet. There are still gross adjustments that need to be made to get the car where I like it, and dialing out the understeer is top on the list. Right now the front is pushing way more than it has to. There are adjustments I can make to the driving style, as Chili has suggested, that will give me incremental improvements, but the basic setup of the car is compromising corner exit and there's no reason to learn on a car with inferior balance when I can get it "right" (for my driving style) from the get go
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1,190 Posts
Have you listed what all you have done to the car? Such as alignment #s, shim removal, ride height, and so on? This way you can get close to a known starting point relative to what others have already done.
Of course
I know to adjust one thing at a time, and the easiest gross adjustment at this point is the shock stiffness. After than I can play with the front sway bar, then worry about wheels/tires.
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460 Posts
I know you know this...
OK one potential change-up with the track pack is to keep the shock setting static and adjust the sway bar links. In theory if you stiffen up the back sway bar relative to the front it should reduce the understeer. That also means softening up the front relative to the back should work also.
Alternatively changing out the front springs to softer front springs should in theory help with understeer.
As already mentioned negative camber in the front will also reduce the understeer, so remove those shims!
I say all of the above in theory because I have not actually taken such actions in my Lotus except for removing the shims and having maximum negative camber up front. Truth be told, I'm too chicken.
I do know that in my Miata that if I make the back shocks stiffer relative to the front the car is more likely to oversteer. It actually is pretty fun to drift a Miata around a corner by setting the front on softest setting and the backs on super stiff.
Presumably if I do the opposite (soften the back relative to the front) it will give me more understeer.
Of course it goes without saying that the Miata is a bludgeon of a car in comparison to the razor sharp saber of the Exige. To actively induce throttle lift oversteer in the Miata much more dramatic action is needed. I could never drive my Exige with the same gusto that I drive the Miata.
Of course some of that hesitency might be because I can total the Miata, walk away and replace it for less cost than one bad off in my Exige. There is a reason so many racing people talk about Miatas as if they are semi-disposable, because they are!
I think Prof. Chili was right, the Miata is going to ruin me as a Lotus driver because it is so forgiving and major mistakes are do not induce major wallet trauma. That's racing... :shrug:
OK one potential change-up with the track pack is to keep the shock setting static and adjust the sway bar links. In theory if you stiffen up the back sway bar relative to the front it should reduce the understeer. That also means softening up the front relative to the back should work also.
Alternatively changing out the front springs to softer front springs should in theory help with understeer.
As already mentioned negative camber in the front will also reduce the understeer, so remove those shims!
I say all of the above in theory because I have not actually taken such actions in my Lotus except for removing the shims and having maximum negative camber up front. Truth be told, I'm too chicken.
I do know that in my Miata that if I make the back shocks stiffer relative to the front the car is more likely to oversteer. It actually is pretty fun to drift a Miata around a corner by setting the front on softest setting and the backs on super stiff.
Presumably if I do the opposite (soften the back relative to the front) it will give me more understeer.
Of course it goes without saying that the Miata is a bludgeon of a car in comparison to the razor sharp saber of the Exige. To actively induce throttle lift oversteer in the Miata much more dramatic action is needed. I could never drive my Exige with the same gusto that I drive the Miata.
Of course some of that hesitency might be because I can total the Miata, walk away and replace it for less cost than one bad off in my Exige. There is a reason so many racing people talk about Miatas as if they are semi-disposable, because they are!
I think Prof. Chili was right, the Miata is going to ruin me as a Lotus driver because it is so forgiving and major mistakes are do not induce major wallet trauma. That's racing... :shrug:
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