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Discussion Starter #1
Does the hard top eliminate more wind/road noise than the Touring Package's soft top? Thanks.
 

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I'll tell you in about three weeks; I can't imagine it wouldn't.
 

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I've heard the hardtop causes more noise due to sound reflecting off the fiberglass. The soft top by contrast has enough insulation to absord some of these noise and not produce resonance. Remember that the hardtop does not have much lining.

That's the story anyway...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you. Incidentally, does anyone have a picture of the inside of the hard top?
 

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Vantage said:
I've heard the hardtop causes more noise due to sound reflecting off the fiberglass. The soft top by contrast has enough insulation to absord some of these noise and not produce resonance. Remember that the hardtop does not have much lining.

That's the story anyway...
I've been in a hardtop federal elise, and in a softtop 111s. Unfortunely it wasn't back to back, but I can say that it wasn't a problem to have a conversation with the top up in either car.

The hardtop actually has a nice liner on it. I was pretty much expecting bare fiberglass or something, but it looks good, pretty much like a normal roof.
 

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Hardtop will make the cabin a more efficient acoustic chamber than the soft top, which in turn captures more sound than No top.
The hard top would need some sound/vibration absorbing material as a liner.
We need something as efficient as dynomat(TM) but light.
I'll be using a hardtop 99% of the time.
:eek: yup! sacriledge.
m
 

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speaking of hard top i am really on the fence on it. i really like the look and for a couple months a year i could see using it. it really is a shame that the on-off of the hard top is not as easy as it was on my x 1/9 or 911 targa. then it would be a no brainer for me. which is pretty convenient as i am pretty much brainless anyway
 

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I ordered one just for track days. After being bumped out of all the local BMW events with my S2000, I learned my lesson. Not sure how much use the hardtop will get otherwise. Steve
 

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I might end up buying a hard top for track events as well. It might be necessary to pass the muster of some organizations, and it will certainly add a level of safety. That said: I'm pretty damn sure my BMW club (Golden Gate chapter) will not let the Elise on a track with just the hard top; for open-top cars they require a race-ready roll-bar as well.
 

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Jon,

Why bother trying to figure out what the BMW club to allow/not allow. Come to the GGLC Track Days. We have one more event this year (had 6) and will have a full calendar next year. Most of the 2005 events will be done with Club111.

And, you can always invite any BMW friends too! (just ask them to point us by!!!)

Kiyoshi
 

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khamai said:
Jon,

Why bother trying to figure out what the BMW club to allow/not allow. Come to the GGLC Track Days. We have one more event this year (had 6) and will have a full calendar next year. Most of the 2005 events will be done with Club111.

And, you can always invite any BMW friends too! (just ask them to point us by!!!)

Kiyoshi
Trust me--joining GGLC is the plan. I would like to run the Elise with my BMW club because they're events are so well-organized, and the instruction level is pretty damn high. But when I put my first deposit down, I knew I would be running the Elise with the Lotus club. It just makes more sense.
 

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JonM3Coupe said:
Trust me--joining GGLC is the plan. I would like to run the Elise with my BMW club because they're events are so well-organized, and the instruction level is pretty damn high. But when I put my first deposit down, I knew I would be running the Elise with the Lotus club. It just makes more sense.
Excellent! Sounds like a PERFECT plan.

You're absolutely correct about the BMW guys doing a great job with instruction (at driving BMWs, which may not translate to driving an Elise). To be honest, the GGLC has not attempted to do formal instruction. This isn't to say there isn't any instruction at GGLC events, it's more casual.

There are always a number of very experienced and capable drivers at GGLC events who are eager to help the newbie or novice. The GGLC events have typically emphasized track time.

Thus if you're someone who thinks they would fee more comfortable with a formal instruction program, the BMW, Porsche or any professional school might be a better place to start (Jon, I say this for others reading this post - not you...)
 

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geez- I have never SEEN so many people concerned about BMWCCA track rules (vis-a-vis no convertibles allowed). As mentioned in other posts, there are plenty of other track days around (although I do have great respect for BMWCCA instructors). The Elise with soft top (or no top) should be fine for track days as it has an "integral rolllbar with substantial rearward bracing" as is required at most track days.
 

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JonM3Coupe said:
pretty damn sure my BMW club (Golden Gate chapter) will not let the Elise on a track with just the hard top; for open-top cars they require a race-ready roll-bar as well.
where did you hear that? i got a different story from bob and mark.
 

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khamai said:
Jon,

Why bother trying to figure out what the BMW club to allow/not allow. Come to the GGLC Track Days. We have one more event this year (had 6) and will have a full calendar next year. Most of the 2005 events will be done with Club111.
Kiyoshi
bmw has autocross and driving schools at candlestick.

bmw has track schools.

david told me that your weekend drives are pretty tame.

i'm not putting down the lotus club, but for me, the lotus club doesn't offer what i'm looking for.
 

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saffron said:
where did you hear that? i got a different story from bob and mark.
This has been the long-standing BMW GGC policy for high-performance driving schools. Maybe they are making an exception because the Elise has a factory roll hoop? Maybe they just made this call recently? I don't know. FWIW, I spoke to Mark (D) a few months ago, and mentioned to him that I have a deposit on an Elise. He was excited for me, but noted that it wouldn't pass club muster without a roll cage.

For clarification, this is the policy currently posted for the BMW CCA November event at Sears Point:

"Convertibles and T-top cars must have 5-point belts and arm restraints, as well as an approved roll cage installed. Factory "rollover protection" for a soft top (i.e. BMW Z3 and Z4, Porsche Boxster) is not sufficient for the school. Convertibles with hard tops are NOT ALLOWED. Examples of cars NOT ALLOWED include: Firebirds and Camaros with T-tops or convertibles; any Corvette other than the Z06 coupe; Porsche convertibles and Targas. It is essential that you email or call [name deleted] to discuss these issues well in advance if you plan to bring a convertible or T-top car."
 

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saffron said:
david told me that your weekend drives are pretty tame.

i'm not putting down the lotus club, but for me, the lotus club doesn't offer what i'm looking for.
Hmmm... don't know what you're looking for, but do expect "legal" events (in case this is being read by certain people). ;)

What do you mean by "weekend drives are pretty tame"??? I won't share the stories about a lot of the GGLCs past events, but word "spirited" comes to mind.

I'm not saying the GGLC or any other Lotus club is for everyone, but I would like to think you or anyone else would give them a fair trial before passing judgement. And, if that's still not satisfactory, then do like many of our members have done, put on an event that they'd like to have.

Kiyoshi
 

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I haven't noticed any difference in noise between the hardtop and softop, though I haven't done any immediate back to back comparisons. If there's any difference, I'd say it's slight (note - I have the insulated soft top).
 
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