The Lotus Cars Community banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am bummed that the Lotus 240S finished last out of 10 production cars on the track. I can't believe it got only up to 136 on high speed course as well.
Looks like the Corvette is the best bang for the buck. I so love my 06 Exige. I guess I won't put much $$ into now. I was thinking about the Katana SC. Anyone else see this issue?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
598 Posts
I am bummed that the Lotus 240S finished last out of 10 production cars on the track. I can't believe it got only up to 136 on high speed course as well.
Looks like the Corvette is the best bang for the buck. I so love my 06 Exige. I guess I won't put much $$ into now. I was thinking about the Katana SC. Anyone else see this issue?
Yes, I read the article and quite frankly was a bit surprised that the Lotus came in last behind the Mitsubishi Evo, but not that surprised when comparing it to a $200k Lamborghini. Raw numbers never give you the total picture of any car, and as good as the Nissan GT-R and other cars are, someday their complicated electronics and mechanicals, will be a nightmare to service. The simplicity of the Lotus will make it continually desirable for purists years from now.
vincesf
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
392 Posts
Yes, I read the article and quite frankly was a bit surprised that the Lotus came in last behind the Mitsubishi Evo, but not that surprised when comparing it to a $200k Lamborghini. Raw numbers never give you the total picture of any car, and as good as the Nissan GT-R and other cars are, someday their complicated electronics and mechanicals, will be a nightmare to service. The simplicity of the Lotus will make it continually desirable for purists years from now.
vincesf
In reality, the Lamborghini will actually cost you $300,000 out the door. I like the Lambo though; I still wish it were a bit lighter. Perhaps, the new Lotus Eprit will fill that niche for me.
It has been suggested that perhaps, one reason for the 'relative' poorer showing is that the Lotus has a higher learning curve than the other cars. I do believe this is true.
You also have to take these kind of magazine articles with a grain of salt. I believe it was just last year that they did a similar kind of comparison test where the 2007 Exige S came out much higher on the relative charting. Overall, I think it was only second after the Porsche 911 GT3. :shrug:
None of this speaks to the relative 'fun factor.' IMO none of these other cars are anywhere near as much fun to drive. When I get into the Lotus, I feel like it becomes an extension of my body.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
26,313 Posts
Yes, I read the article and quite frankly was a bit surprised that the Lotus came in last behind the Mitsubishi Evo, but not that surprised when comparing it to a $200k Lamborghini. Raw numbers never give you the total picture of any car, and as good as the Nissan GT-R and other cars are, someday their complicated electronics and mechanicals, will be a nightmare to service. The simplicity of the Lotus will make it continually desirable for purists years from now.
vincesf
The Lotus beat the EVO on two of the tracks. Check the entire article.

Most of the cars in this lopsided test are huge, very expensive 8 and 12 cylinder cars.

In many of these "road tests" the Lotus beats many of these same cars.

Go figure. :D
 

·
Puff Daddy
Joined
·
3,872 Posts
They say several times throughout the article that the lack of power in the Lotus is what caused it to be in last place (figuratively and literally) rotfl

I don't think learning curve had much to do with it... the drivers they chose had plenty of experience in their respective fields.

I was thinking it *could* have to do with how the Lotus was setup. Our cars are extremely sensitive to small things like tire pressure. Lotus also isn't known for sending out cars with a perfect alignment from the factory either :rolleyes:

I LOL'd when I read that the Viper didn't finish first even with a factory trained technician on duty, the most horsepower in the group, the best power to weight ratio, and the largest/stickest tires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,708 Posts
They say several times throughout the article that the lack of power in the Lotus is what caused it to be in last place (figuratively and literally) rotfl

I don't think learning curve had much to do with it... the drivers they chose had plenty of experience in their respective fields.

I was thinking it *could* have to do with how the Lotus was setup. Our cars are extremely sensitive to small things like tire pressure. Lotus also isn't known for sending out cars with a perfect alignment from the factory either :rolleyes:

I LOL'd when I read that the Viper didn't finish first even with a factory trained technician on duty, the most horsepower in the group, the best power to weight ratio, and the largest/stickest tires.
but it did finish a close second to the 300k lambo. (in overall rating, though it finished first in a couple of the lap times i believe....including AUTOCROSS! LOL)
theyre all cool cars....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,190 Posts
The R&T article did a few things
1 showed how nice the Aston Martin is. That big car can move.
2 how disconnected the people at R&T are from reality. Come on now, to test how good a track oriented car is at a given track and not bother to set it up or get used to it, or get drivers that are use to a given car is just stupid. The hole idea of having a track car is to dial it in to how you like to drive and/or to a given track. There test showed nothing except that the Aston is a vary nice capable car, but most people already knew that.
3 why I do not buy R&T magazine.

I guess this is a way to try to put some Track back in to Road & Track, for their track coverage hasn’t existed for at least 20+ years. Nothing like fresh reading about a race that took place last season. R&T sucks. I will stick with EVO magazine from England. I used to like R&T but it sucks now(and has for quite a few years now), I hope it returns to being a good magazine someday soon.

Kevin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
R&T has actually had some really glowing reviews and articles about Elises and Exiges over the past 6 months.

I was mostly surprised how the attitude changed drastically in this article.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
776 Posts
R&T has actually had some really glowing reviews and articles about Elises and Exiges over the past 6 months.

I was mostly surprised how the attitude changed drastically in this article.
Just read the whole article, word for word. I too was surprised by the feedback and was looking for "holes" in it, however, we DEFINITELY can not discount the feedback, as the test driver for each event was a seriously skilled heavy hitter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
There was another thread (ZJChaser posted a link above) that discussed this (ad nauseum) after this piece came out online a couple weeks back. In that thread, it was pointed out that there are members of the Lotus Challenge Series group who are amateur drivers who have never even raced (only timed trials) who turned better times than the pro test drivers that R&T used. This goes to two points mentioned in this thread...The test car was likely set up very poorly, and that there is a learning curve for driving our cars on the track. All one has to do is watch the Top Gear episode where Jeremy can't get the Elise to go around a turn without horrible understeer, and then the Lotus engineer gets in and is able to drift it around the same turn at will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,795 Posts
It was too far down on hp/weight ratio. There is a discussion on the SCCA boards including comments from the driver of all the cars. He's a very competitive SCCA national solo 2 competitor. He said he hated the brakes on the Lotus as well so I know I'm not crazy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Keep in mind, that the article also said that they weren't looking to set a lap record or wad-up the cars, either. They only took a few laps in each car and went with the best ones.

Direct quote from R&T...
"We've been through these nine turns before, but not with all this exotic machinery. The ground rules are simple; our hot-shoe Steve Millen gets two timed sessions in each car. Each session consists of a warm-up and cool-down lap with two fliers in between. The object is to get representative fast laps, but not to set a track record. These are, after all, street cars. With a few modifications and adjustments the lap times of all could be drastically changed. That's not what this test is about. The results of this multi-track test are best used as a way of understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each model. "

With that said, yes, the Lotus takes a good amount of skill and a very steep learnig curve to drive well. Still, it's not a supercar. It's very light on power and even the supercharged ones havea problem pulling speed once things get going.
My modded STI will hand my Elise it's ass on anything other than a very tight autox...even on street tires, as the Elise just doesn't have the juice to move it at higher speeds.
Case in point - a VERY good driver had to drive his ExigeS to an inch of it's life at Watkins Glenn toget under 2:15... that's not really fast, as stock-tired Z06s are pulling 2:10-2:12s. At Limerock, a full Hoosierd/prepped Exige needs to be driven without care for one's life to approach 1minute times...these times are easily matched/beaten by many other cars.

In my street-tired STI I never met a Lotus that posed a challenge on track...sure they are fast, they make you become abetter driver (- finding a more adept track-instructor than a Lotus Elise is nearly impossible!!!!), but when put up against cars with +100hp and much wider rubber, you can only do so much with light weight....probably why the Aston, with all it's weight, did so well.

Check the classing for TimeTrials and roadracing...the Lotus' aren't classed with the "big boys" for a reason. The days of "lightness" are fading fast with street sedans packing v8s and 500hp. Tires are getting better every year and even big/heavy cars can handle pretty well (GTR???). To compete with the "best" track cars around, the Lotus needs some more power.

Be good,
TomK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,515 Posts
The days of "lightness" are fading fast with street sedans packing v8s and 500hp. Tires are getting better every year and even big/heavy cars can handle pretty well (GTR???). To compete with the "best" track cars around, the Lotus needs some more power.

Be good,
TomK

Agree w/most except your conclusion. In reading most automotive news these days, the days of high hp and weight are hitting their peak and on the downslide, due largely to the cost of fossil fuel.

The Viper's days are now officially numbered, most projections for the next generation Corvette has it with far smaller displacement engine, and much lighter weight.

The GTR is a car both ahead of its time and already outdated.

Most projections these days has performance cars in the near/mid future actually more along the lines of the Lotus, albeit with a bit more power, but not much more. And nearly all much, much lighter than what passes for performance cars now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Agree w/most except your conclusion. In reading most automotive news these days, the days of high hp and weight are hitting their peak and on the downslide, due largely to the cost of fossil fuel.

The Viper's days are now officially numbered, most projections for the next generation Corvette has it with far smaller displacement engine, and much lighter weight.

The GTR is a car both ahead of its time and already outdated.

Most projections these days has performance cars in the near/mid future actually more along the lines of the Lotus, albeit with a bit more power, but not much more. And nearly all much, much lighter than what passes for performance cars now.
I agree with all you said.
I will also say that the Lotus is both outdated and ahead of it's time - the "add lightness" mantra of CC ran for a long time but has now only been catching on to modern builders due to economic/political reasons, not performance. How much of the World's gasoline is really wasted on performance cars? I think the SUVs/trucks/luxury market is more to blame.

So I do plan on buying one of those monster motor machines... I had a magnacharged C5Z06 and the 500rwhp/475rwtq was unreal. That car pulled harder at 120mph (where the Lotus completely falls on it's face) than my Lotus pulls at any speed. At our last track day, an ExigeS wasn't able to pass my friend's MazdaSpeed3 (chipped for more power) on the straights, even though it weighs a good 1000lbs more. Sure the Lotus was faster in the turns, but he was on Hoosiers and my friend was on Kumhos. I was on the Yokos in my Elise and still couldn't stay with him in the turns, whereas in my STI he was never able to stay with me.


Sure light weight and skill can go a long way.... I've seen Yaudi's videos (check them out in the "Video" thread..they are awesome) where he is crushing everyone on the track but those are, IMHO, the "perfect storm" for the Lotus' success there (great driver, knows the track very well, Lotus suited track). Check the 'Ring times or other high-speed tracks and our beloved Loti become outgunned/underpowered karts.

Hopefully, the factory will wise-up with the Eagle and give it the much deserved power boost with FI down the road (and a turbo this time...please?).

Be good,
TomK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
Ok, so let's take what Ace is saying and then look at what Forcedfed (and, yes, Ronin...sorry) are doing...building 375 to 400 HP Lotus'. Assuming they are set up properly, suspension-wise, do we not have the best of both worlds (low weight/ high horsepower) for a pretty reasonable investment?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Ok, so let's take what Ace is saying and then look at what Forcedfed (and, yes, Ronin...sorry) are doing...building 375 to 400 HP Lotus'. Assuming they are set up properly, suspension-wise, do we not have the best of both worlds (low weight/ high horsepower) for a pretty reasonable investment?
Agreed. I have a Forced Fed 275 hp Elise and don't have any issues in the power department. I need more rubber under the car but am happy with the how it runs. I think that mid 1:35's are respectable on street tyres at Hallett. With a set of Hoosiers and a little dialing in (both driver and car) I should be able to shave 3-5 seconds off; this would put me into the realm of Z06/Viper laptimes. Obviously one always wants more power, but I can live with mine for a couple of more seasons (let the driver catch up to the car).

My biggest problem with the car is heat inside the engine compartment. Any more than ten hot laps and I'm melting things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,202 Posts
Agreed. I have a Forced Fed 275 hp Elise and don't have any issues in the power department. I need more rubber under the car but am happy with the how it runs. I think that mid 1:35's are respectable on street tyres at Hallett. With a set of Hoosiers and a little dialing in (both driver and car) I should be able to shave 3-5 seconds off; this would put me into the realm of Z06/Viper laptimes. Obviously one always wants more power, but I can live with mine for a couple of more seasons (let the driver catch up to the car).

My biggest problem with the car is heat inside the engine compartment. Any more than ten hot laps and I'm melting things.
1:35 for a turbo Elise sounds a bit on the slow side. Below is a video of forum member RichS doing a 1:29:04 at Hallett. He is in a N/A Exige and Im guessing he is on RA1's. Since Rich lives in Austin he doesn't get to run Hallett much either. He is a good driver though.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xg5kz59TTt4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xg5kz59TTt4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
1:35 for a turbo Elise sounds a bit on the slow side. Below is a video of forum member RichS doing a 1:29:04 at Hallett. He is in a N/A Exige and Im guessing he is on RA1's. Since Rich lives in Austin he doesn't get to run Hallett much either. He is a good driver though.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xg5kz59TTt4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xg5kz59TTt4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Key words: Street Tyres.

Without stickier tyres I can't carry enough speed to stay 'in the cam' through the back side of the track. Also, my huevos aren't big enough (yet) to push it 100% through turn 1.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top